Health Care Reform
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March 27, 2010, 04:47 PM I thought this was an interesting article and may spur some debate on the subject. |
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[ # 1 ] March 27, 2010, 05:43 PM The way the United states health care system works actually makes me feel sick. I just cannot believe that people are denied health care, that in some cases could save their life, in modern society - just because they don’t have insurance. Which they actually in some cases cannot even get, because they have a pre-existing condition. In my world people have a right to health care, whether it is for a runny nose or radiation treatment for cancer. The new reform is one step on the way, but in my opinion it is not enough. |
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[ # 2 ] March 27, 2010, 06:15 PM Could not have said it better myself. But our problems go much deeper in the U.S. than many people realize. Doctor’s, insurance companies, drug companies, and hospitals call the shots and there is little in this bill that addresses these problems. In short all these groups get paid far more money for what they do than they deserve. Our system is really a form of corporate welfare. It is a system whereby these special interest groups get better treatment than the patients they are suppose to be taking care of. Until that is fixed, our health care will continue to lag behind the rest of the modern world. What many American’s don’t realize is that our system of government is actually one of the most corrupt systems in the modern world. Until the goverment comes along and does something about these special interest groups, nothing will really change. We have the same problem with the public school system in this country. You would think that the regulations, laws and rules are primarily designed to help the kids…..but in reality they’re really designed to help the school teacher’s union. That’s another powerful special interest group the polticians refuse to take on. As a result, our kids suffer. Just like in healthcare, the patients suffer. Just my humble opinion. |
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[ # 3 ] March 27, 2010, 11:58 PM Well stated Joe! |
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[ # 4 ] March 28, 2010, 11:12 AM In a Capitalistic society, money is the ultimate law and like Joe said it makes its dictates thru special interest groups; == Big Pharma, The Big 4 Food Industry(rules the FDA), Banks, Insurance companies and such. Because its still “The Jungle”, we have to keep an eye on these groups cutting corners, hurting people and the destroying the environment. This is a task which our government since they are in bed with these interests are apt to do. It seems like these Big hitters are always trying to slide one past the goalie and blame it on something else. So we have to watch them, call them on it and demand change. Since college I have obsessed over how ideal it would be to be able to separate money from politics and create a more direct(true) democracy for the people. Direct meaning people being able to have more say in bills, rules and laws than just electing an official and watching that official pander to big money lobbies. Its disgusting how the pharmaceutical companies are making our doctors mindless, lazy, overprescribing robots who are underdiagnosing and overdiagnosing patients with problems.. Its sick how our food industry captilizes off people’s misunderstanding of nutrition and inundates our markets with insanely unhealthy food . This is the same food that cultivates disease and feeds Big Pharma. Recently, while watching the movie “Food Inc”(everyone in the US who goes to a grocery store or eats out at restaurants should see this film) I felt deeply affected. At the end of the film there is an interview with a farmer and the farmer says, “You have to demand better quality (food) and I swear we will deliver”. This really resonated with me. All the major movements throughout history only brought change when the offending bodies were held to task and that change was demanded. People need to be educated about what’s going on, so they can mobilize and demand this change. The problem is that people beleive the deception and everything our authoritative groups tell them(FDA, Doctors, Pharma) Until we educate the people and expose the ills, the Big Guys are always going to take advantage of the little guys. |
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[ # 6 ] March 28, 2010, 08:43 PM
Swagman…
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[ # 7 ] March 28, 2010, 09:32 PM Hi Bushman. I agree with you but I have a slightly different view of things. To me we already have the taxation and regulation of france yet we have none of the benefits of that taxation. I just got done paying 35% of all my net business income in taxes. I pay an additional $6,000 per year as a payroll deduction from my part time job for health insurance….keep in mind my employer already pays half…..and I still spent another $2,000 in out of pocket medical expenses. I pay 4,000 in property taxes….I pay 6% sales tax on everything but food in the grocery store and clothing. I pay roughly 8% social security tax of which my employer pays the other half. I pay 2-3% state taxes on everythig I earn. I pay 15% federal tax and 2-3% state taxes on any interest I earn. Oh I also pay 1% of everything I earn for local taxes. Of course there are numerous other taxes that no one thinks about. Like a special tax on gasoline…a special tax on your phone bill…a special tax when you purchase tires for your car…a special tax when you rent a car or purchase an airline ticket…a special trasfer tax when you purchase or sell a a house. If you sell the house for a profit there is a capital gains tax to pay! You see in France you pay high taxes….but you actually GET SOMETHING for those taxes. You get healthcare, everyone gets a minimum of 5 weeks vacation, free daycare for the kids and also free college education is available as well. Oh and by the way they have a 32 hour work week. So if you want to adopt a libertarian system of extremely low taxes and virtually no government services…..SIGN ME UP! But if you’re gonna tax the shit out of me at least give me something for those taxes. In America we have all the negatives of socialism and none of the advantages! How is this possible? Because they have us fighting among ourselves over the IDEOLOGY of liberal and conservatism. When the real issue is not about ideology. It’s about THEFT…PLAIN AND SIMPLE. We have an extremely corrupt government. That’s what the problem really is. It’s not whether the liberals are running the government or the conservatives. They’re all crooks! |
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[ # 8 ] March 28, 2010, 09:36 PM Joe you echo my sentiments exactly. Its all money. All the negatives and none of the benefits. I am seriously going to vote for Ron Paul if he runs again. Everything went to hell when the Federal Reserve took control. |
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[ # 9 ] March 29, 2010, 08:41 PM What’s really funny, though, is this… I woke up this morning and found out I am a racist bigot women-hating homophobe. I didn’t know that! I though I was for fiscal responsibility and ensuring that this country remains the greatest source of freedom and liberty that world has ever know, but the New York Times has told me otherwise:
I want this asinine mortgage crisis and the Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae debacle to end -but the New York Times and others on that side of the isle have informed me that I’m just threatened because of Barney Frank’s sexuality. I did not know that about myself! I absolutely hate the anti-American items in this healthcare bill that are reminiscent of what triggered the founding fathers (other angry white men) to rebel against our British oppressors -but the New York Times and others have told me that I’m actually only angry that Nancy Pelosi isn’t slaving away in the kitchen cooking me a turkey dinner. I thought that the “wise Latina” bigoted, double standard statements, the lack of competence in judicial summaries, and the legislate from the bench mentality by Justice Sotomayor disqualified her to be on the supreme court -but the New York Times and others with similar political leanings told me that I simply wasn’t comfortable because she wasn’t putting chocolates on my hotel room pillow. Oh, forget about Clarence Thomas, Condoleezza Rice, etc. etc. etc…. they don’t count. I’m an angry white male -and therefore my valid concerns are now marginalized. That one article is NOT an isolated incident as Janeane Garofalo would happily tell you, and the POLITICIANS on that side are embracing that tone, too, and here is the UNDERLYING PROBLEM THAT THIS COUNTRY FACES… ...siezing of race-based and other divisional politics by one side of the political spectrum with an eager big-government-supporting media to aid and abet them. Until we can get passed all of this NONSENSE, then we are ALL screwed. We can talk about health care, the environment, whatever, until we are blue in the face -and until this absolutely ridiculous Saul Llinsky Rules for Radicals marginalization stops, it won’t make a bit of difference. Tear me up if you want… one side does this WAY MORE than the other, and the attacks against the Tea Party, talk radio, etc. just don’t hold up -I can debate and win anyone, anywhere on this. So, if the people currently in charge of this country -and the media tasked with presenting both sides of the argument- can stop this crap, THEN… then maybe we can pass a bill that *isn’t* completely against the will of the people -like this one is.
PS- Pat Sajak actually has a decent retort to all of this: “Opposed to Obamacare? Then You Must Be a Racist” He does a much better job at being “even keeled” than I do… |
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[ # 10 ] March 29, 2010, 09:08 PM LOL! I knew I could get you involved in this thread! I don’t have the time to fully respond to what you just said right now. Hopefully I’ll have time tomorrow. Suffice it to say I agree with almost everything you’ve said. But not only does bullshit come from the far left….it also comes from the far right too. For example the far right constantly pounds away saying we don’t want “socialized medicine”......well I agree with that. One problem though….we already have socialized medicine….just shitty socialized medicine. We’ve had socialized medicine ever since they passed the medicare bill back in the 60’s. The far right was also very quiet a few years ago when Bush and congress passed the medicare prescription drug bill! For a country swarming in debt it was pure madness. But was this not further expanding socialized medicine? John they’re all crooks. Republican’s and democrats alike. Ideology is not the problem…liberal, conservative…..all bullshit. The real issue in my humble opinion is that our government is run by crooks. Put a bunch of good, decent, honest socialists in charge and we will all do better. Put a bunch of good decent honest conservatives in charge and we will all do a lot better too. If I had to lean one way or the other I would prefer the libertarian agenda. But fundementally that’s not really the issue. The issue is that our government is broken. It’s not that it’s too liberal or socialistic or that it’s too conservative. It’s that it’s TOO DAMN CROOKED! |
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[ # 11 ] March 29, 2010, 09:55 PM I agree that using assanine excuses like “race” to deflect criticism is beyond dispicable. Anything too radical always ends up in the dumpster in my opinion. Nationalized healthcare would be a great idea if it were really done right. But it seems like they are just kinda willy nilly throwing this provision and that provision in that ends up murdering anything good about it. Not to mention the likely possibility that the only thing most of us are going to notice is more taxes. So, were paying for something that alot of us MIGHT want if it were done right and for the benefit of all. But they hose everything up so bad, you’ve got to wonder what the real intention is. At the end of the day all I can see is that its “MONEY”. Same with the Iraq war and Afghanistan. You better beleive someone is/was getting “PAID”. People don’t matter, things matter, paper matters. I think at some point more people are going to see this “bumbling” Guiding Hand that keeps leading us in destructive circles for what it is. Be it us or future generations, hopefully we/they will have enough balls to bend that hand until it says uncle. Or show that hand uncomfortable heat until it loosens its grip. Then I think we will really move forward. Until then were left with both these clunkers IMHO we need a party called Good, that lives up to its name and Does it. |
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[ # 12 ] March 29, 2010, 10:04 PM Yeah, they are all crooks -I’m not talking about Republicans and Democrats, though -AT ALL. I’m talking about LIBERTARIANS vs. LIBERALS -and the night and day ideals of each. I’d vote tomorrow to remove every single member of congress, though, and start over. But that’s all I really have to say. See… right now, I’ve already pissed off half the people that have read my posts! lol… I think anyone that has a brain can agree that it’s time to get the pitchforks, though. The direction we are headed in is absolute nonsense -and damn one party for passing something that infringes on the core rights of the constitution, damn the other party for screwing themselves over to the point that they couldn’t stop this, and damn us all for not doing our part to implement long overdue term limits, for not paying attention to primary races (where this could have all been stopped -oust the “status quo” and at least try to find someone that can make real changes in your district/state), and for being to fearful to embrace a third party. There is hope, though… a year ago, Charlie Crist would have one the open Florida seat hands down, and he would have been more of the EXACT SAME BULLSHIT -as nice as he is. Now… he’s going to LOSE THE PRIMARY to someone that purports to embrace actual change. We’ll see. One thing is for sure, you would have never heard about the other guy if it wasn’t for the brewing animosity for the status quo -everybody is getting pissed about everything, and that’s a GOOD THING. There’s hope out there. There’s still hope for every American. -O.M.G. |
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[ # 13 ] March 30, 2010, 02:09 AM The amount of misinformation and lack of understanding in this post is absolutely astounding. Please do NOT speak on behalf of capitalism if you have no clue what it is! #1 - We live in a society of corporate fascism married to socialism. Please read the “Communist Manifesto” by Karl Marx. There are ten pillars necessary for Communism to take root, and if memory serves me right, we have NINE of the TEN. #2 - You cannot have free market capitalism with a central bank. A central bank is one of the if not THE primary pillars for Communism to exist. You cannot have Communism with a decentralized money supply, and must have a central bank. Must. #3 - No amount of government reform will ever benefit health care, and the United States is far and away NOT behind other countries in the world in terms of health care. This is a myth perpetuated by socialists. Because of the small degree of capitalism that we have left in our society (not in spite of it), our treatments are still often the best in the world. Even so, our health “care” system is structured around treating symptoms, while people continue to consume processed food and toxins and then blame their ailments on old age and genetics because they’re too ignorant and lazy to do some research and take some responsibility for their health and actions. #4 - Nobody is entitled to health care. This isn’t an opinion. You are born with certain unalienable rights, such as the right to travel (you contract away the right to travel for the privilege to “drive”), the right to free speech, the right to own property, essentially the right to do whatever you wish without harming another’s rights. Stealing from one another, whether it is using the government or directly taking is a direct violation of natural rights endowed by the Creator. When you “pay” taxes (pay in quotes since you can’t “pay” debt with debt notes aka Federal Reserve Notes, you can only trade debt for debt), it is because you do not know how the system works. People voluntarily give up their rights, without even realizing it. The 14th Amendment only banned involuntary slavery, but voluntary slavery is still lawful, even if you are ignorant to the law and don’t realize that you’ve voluntarily contracted away said rights. #5 - Our health care system is a mess, and is driven by corporate greed. Prior to Nixon and HMOs, it was strictly a doctor-patient ordeal, and NOBODY was ever refused treatment. Doctors would negotiate prices with patients, and for those that were poor, not-for-profit church-based hospitals would help them. Once the special interests were allowed in there, that was the beginning of the end for what was then considered to be the best health care system in the world. #6 - True free market capitalism would see no taxation, a sound money supply (no inflation/deflation), competition breeding innovation and lowered prices, companies run poorly would fold and would not be bailed out, companies that were successful would be so because they create services desired by consumers. The greatest empires fall when the government gets involved in the market and economy. See: Rome. |
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[ # 14 ] March 30, 2010, 02:11 AM Joe— I gave you all the foundational material to teach you what to do with your taxes. :/ OMG— What do you have against Libertarians? They’re the ones that founded this country. Also, quote from Reagan in 1975: “If you analyze it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.” To everyone else, the Republic is still there, it’s just sleeping. The current “government” is a corporation masquerading as a government. If we ever took the initiative to revive the de jure Constitutional Republic, it would supercede the current Democracy and restore us back to 1787. People would have to get used to no more government babysitting, but freedom comes with a price. |
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[ # 15 ] March 30, 2010, 02:29 AM lol… I knew you’d be in the fray before too long, Nidhogge! I agree with almost everything you said (for once), especially “the United States is far and away NOT behind other countries in the world in terms of health care. This is a myth perpetuated by socialists.” If you want to see places where people are truly DENIED HEALTH CARE, don’t look here in America -the country where the lower class has two cars, cable tv, and are FAT from too much food… look at the countries with socialized medicine. Look at the bureaucratic red tape, the asinine waits (YEARS for CAT scans, when I can go get one before noon tomorrow if I wanted to), people falling through the cracks, medical decisions based on cost effectiveness, overall lowering of health care across the board because the brightest individuals are no longer becoming doctors, the destruction of the financial system, etc. etc. etc. I could go on and on. If you really pay attention to the true horror stories there, you won’t be pointing at America as behind –at least not yet. Whether or not there are enough people left in this country that see what is going here for what it is, I have no idea. Sometimes I wonder whether America had more patriots that could be moved to action in 1776 or right now -and this is with a population of 300 million plus. I’ve been pretty disappointed before, but this isn’t about me getting mad at the population for electing someone due to “celebrity status” or how smooth they read a teleprompter… this is about taking an issue in the bass ackwards wrong direction to bring DOWN everyone to suffer on the same level, not eliminate it, and certainly not to raise it. -O.M.G. |
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[ # 16 ] March 30, 2010, 02:31 AM Nid… “F” on reading comprehension. I was saying f*ck Republicans and Democrats and TOUTING Libertarians -I don’t care about the power struggle between those two “parties” (R and D) because the both are awful (although one is definitely a lesser of two evils in my opinion), I care about the power struggle between the ideals of libertarians and liberals, of which -DUH, you can guess which one *I* am! Jeez, ever since I’ve know you, I’ve told you I was a libertarian -but I registered in Florida with one of the major parties becaues there is a closed primary here. You been smoking crack at the mall bar tonight? lol… Yeah, you’ve been smoking crack! The founding fathers of the forum LLLT movement were all libertarians, too, Retardo! Ha ha ha! It’s a personality type. |
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[ # 17 ] March 30, 2010, 04:52 AM You’re generalizing about socialized medicine. I live in one of the most socialized countries in the world, and we also happen to have access to top notch health care. And no, the government didn’t say so - W.H.O. did! haha
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[ # 18 ] March 30, 2010, 05:55 AM Well, Gubster, you’re not taking in a VERY IMPORTANT consideration. The place where you live has absolutely unbelievably BEAUTIFUL WOMEN EVERYWHERE. It’d be hard not to walk down the street with a smile on your face the entire time, all day long, 24/7. Good lord, I would think everything was FAN-DAMN-TASTIC ALL THE TIME! Raise my taxes? I don’t care! Wait in line for six hours to see a dentist? I don’t care -I’ve got 6ft tall blonde chicks right next to me the whole time! You could peck away my individual liberties all day long, and I wouldn’t give a darn because I’ve have gorgeous babes smiling at me all day. So, I’m sorry, but maybe you should go to a country with a lot of ugly women and socialized heath care, and THEN see if you might want something that is a little more fair. lol….
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[ # 19 ] March 30, 2010, 06:56 AM Hi NID. Points #1 and #2….completely agree. Point #3 “No amount of government reform will ever benefit health care, and the United States is far and away NOT behind other countries in the world in terms of health care. This is a myth perpetuated by socialists. Because of the small degree of capitalism that we have left in our society (not in spite of it), our treatments are still often the best in the world.” Well I agree that no amount of reform will matter because the government is too corrupt to begin with. But I disagree that our healthcare is not lacking. Yes maybe we have more expensive technology available but overall our system is poor. I mean people in Cuba actually live longer than we do! I do work in the field and I see what goes on. A parent shouldn’t have to worry and torture themselves as to whether their kid is sick enough to go to see a doctor because it will mean they have less to spend on groceries. Going to the dentist shouldn’t be a major spending decision. Being treated with a blood test and an antibiotic in the E.R. shouldn’t cost $1600! By the way that’s what happened to me last summer when my 19 year old kid got bit by a deer tick and developed lime disease. (He’s fine because I diagnosed him correctly and had him treated quickly). What happened to the doctor’s that used to come to the house and treat you? How can you properly treat an asthmatic child without seeing where the kid lives?.....what the dust levels are like….how much pet dander there is? No nid I completely disagree with you on this point. I think our system of medicine sucks. The only people who tend to think it’s wonderful are the people who are healthy and don’t need any health care. Talk to the people that do need health care. #4 Nobody is entitled to health care. This isn’t an opinion. I agree…..you want to stop covering people that refuse to work and contribute…sign me up for that….we have a lot of deadbeats in this country. But people that deliver heathcare shouldn’t get rich off of people that need healthcare. There is a disproportionate compensation for healthcare in general versus other services. Doctor’s in America make too damn much….so do drug companies and so do hospitals. They are able to do this because as you say we have corporate fascism. I prefer to call it a special interest group that gets “special priviledges”. Points #5 and #6 I agree with. But good luck with getting government out of the economy…..again because government is too damn corrupt. Good talking with you nid. |
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[ # 20 ] March 30, 2010, 07:05 AM “I gave you all the foundational material to teach you what to do with your taxes.” The only way I would ever try something like what you are talking about is if I believed that the judicial system wasn’t corrupt. There is a long history of people that have refused to pay their taxes for one legal reason or another. As soon as enough people start getting away with it the government will swoop in and squash those people….take their assets from them and even jail them. As we talked on the phone when I was your age there was a guy running around by the name of Irwin Schiff telling everyone how they didn’t have to pay their income taxes. he had a multitude of reasons and claimed right on national television the only way they would ever jail him was if the judicial system became corrupt. Well they eventually sent him to jail! I just don’t trust that idea. There’s no sense in trying to debate me on this one nid. I worked my ass off for a very long time to pay my house off. I’m not taking any chances on losing it. I just don’t trust our government at all. There is no rule they won’t break if they want to. |
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[ # 21 ] March 30, 2010, 07:14 AM OMG one thing….I too would love to see a libertarian form of government but the reason I don’t get excited about it is simply because I believe it’s an unattainable dream. You need a nation of intelligent people to change government in that direction. Have you taken a hard look at the IQ levels of the typical American? Just stop and imagine the average IQ of the average joe six pack. Now that your imagining him, realize roughly 50% of the American people are even dumber! LOL! |
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[ # 22 ] March 30, 2010, 07:16 AM OMG…I liked your point you made on another thread about the Ramsey case. I think the Ramseys were inocent too. Imagine what kind of hell the media put them through? Bad enough to lose your daughter but then to be blamed for her murder! That would be a kind of hell I couldn’t begin to imagine. |
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[ # 23 ] March 30, 2010, 08:56 AM Zix— I don’t disagree with you in response to point #3. My point is that government needs to get the hell out of the way, and allow things to be restored to the type of free market health care that we had prior to the 70s. Regarding the taxes—you can’t pay your taxes, you can only settle or satisfy the debt. By utilizing FRNs, you’re satisfying. By accepting for value, you’re settling your account to 0. Most countries (corporations) operate in bankruptcy, be it Canada, Australia, America, Germany, etc. If you’re using a Fiat currency, most likely you’re operating in bankruptcy. Therefore, whenever anyone provides you with a liability, they always must provide you with the REMEDY (the coupon voucher that comes with just about any bill that you receive). When you send that voucher in with your “payment”, the receiver gets “paid” twice (assuming the corporation knows how to properly process said voucher). The stuff that I’m talking to you about has nothing to do with Irwin Schiff, it has to do with House Joint Resolution 192 in 1933. Those who take no action or try to fight taxes wind up in jail, and I am *not* an advocate of that. As the bible teaches, always agree quickly with your adversaries. “Accept for Value” their offers. GIVE their presentments value by your wet blue ink signature. By the way, this has nothing to do with the government, as the IRS is not a part of our government. It’s the accounting firm for the Department of Treasury (a branch of the United Nations). However, since we operate in bankruptcy, we operate in admiral law (gold-fringe on the flag that you see in the military and court rooms). This is bankruptcy law. In bankruptcy, there is no innocent, only guilty or not guilty. Innocent was done away with in at least Canada and Ammerica in 1973 or so. To be not guilty is in contempt of court, to be guilty “to the facts” is the only way to not be in contempt. This is how bankruptcy laws operate, to be “guilty” is the same as to “accept for value” an offer, and is the only way to stay in honor. If you’ve exhausted your administrative remedies prior to pleaing, then your case gets dismissed. If you’d like, I can burn you off a copy of a very interesting seminar roughly 8 hours in length that’ll teach you all about how commerce operates (commerce governs all). |
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[ # 24 ] March 30, 2010, 11:04 AM Good morning Nid. “I don’t disagree with you in response to point #3. My point is that government needs to get the hell out of the way, and allow things to be restored to the type of free market health care that we had prior to the 70s.” I agree. But good luck getting the politicians to do something like that. You think the AMA will go along with that idea? How about big pharma? Do you think even the American people would ever support such a step? In politics there is always a big difference between things that should be done and things that can be done. |
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[ # 25 ] March 30, 2010, 11:05 AM Regarding taxes….why isn’t every lawyer in America not paying taxes then? |
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[ # 26 ] March 30, 2010, 02:01 PM All very interesting points! I have noticed that some so-called socialist countries have more freedom in some respects than I’m a libertarian, however I would feel a lot more freedom in a lot of more socialist oriented countries. Here in the US of A, I’m forced to wear a seat belt in my car, a helmet on my head if on a motorcyle, now soon will be forced to buy insurance for health care I will not use, well could go on and on, because in Calfornia, things really suck—their local traffic laws are ridiculous. Government in the USA is the root of all evil in the USA.
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[ # 27 ] March 30, 2010, 02:17 PM Man, the horror stories I hear about California and regulations/taxation/bureaucratic snafus…. It must be an utterly fantastic place to live for the other reasons because I would think that the mass exodus would be even bigger -you’d have tumbleweeds blowing down the freeways if that was Wisconsin.
-O.M.G. |
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[ # 28 ] March 30, 2010, 02:19 PM OMG; Well I can’t argue with you there… haha Basically from my experience, most americans I’ve met have a very exagerrated image of socialism that corresponds more with communist sovjet at it’s worst than anything else. We’ve had a socialist government for the past 90 years more or less, and I’d like to know in which sense the US has more freedom than we do here.’ In my view it is easier to loose your freedom under capitalism than under socialism. |
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[ # 29 ] March 30, 2010, 03:51 PM Gubter87 - Agreed! Most Americans just think whatever the “idiot box” tells them to think (television). Eastern Europe rocks! |
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[ # 30 ] March 30, 2010, 07:38 PM “The amount of misinformation and lack of understanding in this post is absolutely astounding. Please do NOT speak on behalf of capitalism if you have no clue what it is!”
I don’t think it gets any more “Free Market” than that. In a Free Market, eventually, the “haves” tower above the “have-nots”(our present state). Abolishing the present powers would just create a bigger one to come in and do worse. Starting over would recreate the situation. If you have the money and influence and conform you can get away with murder. That the “government” has anything to do with the Fed is just an illusion to make us think we are protected. Again the Central Bank or The Fed is and has been privately owned since its creation. With the power to flood a financial system with cash and hold that cash back,.............. well…. Our government which is supposed to regulate this does not because our officials are paid. And yes money and this corrupt system is the reason. Is Communism a better solution ? NO! Is Anarchy the solution? NO! Our current system or some variant might be an acceptable solution if it were real, effective and not corrupt. Our government APPEARS to regulate our economy just to the limit where there offender’s actions would be considered criminal. Because if it didn’t people would change it. The government doesn’t have your best interests in mind and NEITHER does MONSANTO. If our markets were totally unregulated our drinking water and food supply would be even worse. Your friends and family sick and dying because they can’t afford to move away from an area chemical company that was dumping in their drinking water. Or your school system or security system(already pretty hosed) how much better those would be in an Unregulated economy or without a government? During the Bush years, the administration’s devotions to unregulated free markets like the Banking and Mortgage Fiasco; not to mention borrowing for a unnecessary war put our economy in the toilet. During those years our economy operated in a very unregulated state and those were the results. So, in these sectors it was almost TOTALLY unregulated during the Bush years and this was a result of the chaos. Going in a new direction with Anarchy or Laissez-Faire Capitalism might not be what we should be striving for. We have 2 enemies: a corrupt government that caters to big money and an almost Laissez-Faire economic system (the Food Industry, Big Pharma) that does what it wants because it lobbies and is “in” with the government. In toe, Laissez-Faire capitalism operates under the guise of regulated Capitalism because it can’t go too far it gets noticed. Our country is run by bankers as is the rest of the world. East vs. West and Capitalism vs. Communism , Republican and Democrat are comfortable illusions. Pure Capitalism would be the reverse of better. If this system were even more Unregulated, it would be much worse, as you wouldn’t have the government stopping companies from murder. At least the government HAS to appear effective and altruistic, so we don’t have all out CHAOS. In a free unregulated Ayn Rand, Utopia, criminalism would be rampant because monopolies would exist that outright Rape people. The ideal Capitalism would be great as you described where companies compete for our business and the best one wins, spurring innovation and giving us what we want. But I think the downside much outweighs the upside of a true free market. Real, valid, regulation is needed. The bottom line is that if our system were done right it(no bribes, dirty money and ulterior motives) might be okay. We are the Most Capitalistic nation in the world. Japan is a Corperatist society, which is also “regulated” by the government as well. We are the last…...1
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[ # 31 ] March 30, 2010, 10:18 PM DM5— Listen to me. You do NOT have a central bank in a free market capitalistic society. Period. No argument here. I do not care who it is run by. In a free market capitalistic society, corporations DO NOT EXIST. Have you ever filed to create a corporation? Corporations are created by the consent of the state, aka the GOVERNMENT. This does not exist in a free market capitalistic society. Therefore, if you produce shitty products that harm people, you can’t hide underneath an umbrella of special privileges that a corporation affords you. You are PERSONALLY liable. In a free market capitalistic society, no regulations aside from fraud exist. This means that small companies ALWAYS out-perform large companies, so that places like Wal-Mart would be shut down left and right. Smaller is almost invariably run more efficiently the majority of the time, which in turn creates many more small businesses to compete with one another thus creating better products for cheaper value. This is how capitalism works. This is a basic law of nature. It’s how things NATURALLY work. When man interferes with nature, chaos ensues. See: The current world economy. “If our markets were totally unregulated our drinking water and food supply would be even worse. Your friends and family sick and dying because they can’t afford to move away from an area chemical company that was dumping in their drinking water. Or your school system or security system(already pretty hosed) how much better those would be in an Unregulated economy or without a government?” Wrong, and again, I reiterate—you have no understanding of how true free market capitalism works. The purpose of the federal government is very basic as defined in the Constitution and is essentially broken down to enforcing contracts, guaranteeing that rights are not violated, maintaining a national defense, and regulating commerce between states. If someone polluted our drinking water and food supply, in common law, they would get the living SHIT sued out of them. They’d be in prison for life (or executed on the spot), and all of their holdings would be transferred to the damage parties. This is how common law works. There haven’t been common law courts in America since 1933 due to the bankruptcy of the United States corporation, meaning we all live in Admiralty law now (tax courts). Point being, if that chemical company contaminated a water supply in a true libertarian society, not only would that chemical company be gone, but all parties involved in contaminating that water supply (even employees, as everyone was damned well knowledgeable in what they were doing) would be f’ed over. There is no greater transgression than violating the natural, God-given rights of another. As for schooling system, there wouldn’t BE a public schooling system! Public schooling is a horrible thing, and the quality of education has only decreased over the decades as government-involvement has increased. People truly learn in colleges, and lo and behold, the better colleges are private ones. In a true free market, capitalistic and laissez-faire libertarian society (something we NEVER were), we’d have no income taxes and therefore would have much more capital to support our families, prices would be fixed since we’d have no inflation from a central bank due to our currency being linked to a tangible, valuable commodity (gold/silver), and the demand for schooling would be huge so TONS of private schools would pop up competing with one another for students. This means lower tuition rates, and better quality education so that they aren’t outperformed by the next school. It’s all common sense really, but freedom is a hard concept for anybody to grasp unless they let their opinions sit at the curb, and let their common sense guide them. The fact that Upton Sinclair ever thinks that we were in a laissez-faire society proves that anything that he writes is a waste of time. Did we have monopolies? Yes. That means we were NOT in a laissez-fair capitalistic society, as monopolies cannot exist without government assistance. If you want a good example of what true capitalism is doing for a country, look no farther than China. They’re leaps and bounds ahead of us in capitalism (despite what you see in our BS media, I actually have Chinese friends that live there or frequently go there for first-hand accounts), and they’re reaping the benefits. Unfortunately, they do not place much emphasis on human rights, thus the harsh conditions that some workers endure (keyword: some). It’s still nowhere as bad as it used to be form a labor perspective in China, and certainly far better than what it was in America during the Industrial Revolution. PS - Bush enacted MANY new regulations, and if you buy that “unregulation” myth during his term, then you need to turn off the television and start researching actual congressional records to see what was passed. It was on Bush’s watch that the act was passed that forced banks to lower their standards towards who they made loans to, a pivotal step in conjunction with the greedy Fed to bring about the Mortgage Crisis. |
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[ # 32 ] March 30, 2010, 10:27 PM Joe— Lawyers are crooks, and the sad thing is, most don’t even know it. They work in the fairy land of statutes and codes. You can fry any of them in court by bonding yourself up. I would NEVER give anyone but myself power of attorney. There’s a reason that they’re called “attorneys-AT-law” and not “attorneys-IN-law”. Google “the original 13th amendment”. This was discovered in Constitutions found in public libraries and college libraries that had old Constitutions from 1850 and prior. The original, true Constitution made it so that anyone that was conferred a position of nobility not only was disallowed from political office, but LOST their American citizenship forever! Wonder why that is…what position is conferred upon a lawyer upon passing the BAR? Esquire! This is a position of British nobility, and what does the BAR stand for? British Accredited Registry as far as we can deduce. That’s right, lawyers are British nobles. Can you see why, when they created the Constitution for the corporation called the United States, that they cleverly left this amendment out? How else would the Brits weasel their way back into controlling their colonies? How many lawyers do we have in our Congress now? Our president’s a lawyer! My point in telling you this is that if you want “legal” advice, go and consult a lawyer. I have no interest in legal advice, as I have no interest in arguing in court. Lawyers make a living off of arguing and extending controversy. We’re living in Admiral law (bankruptcy law). I’d much rather learn how the courts really work rather than the illusion of justice in the court room that lawyers and judges play as corporate actors. To sum things up, everything is a tax court, and every court is not a branch of the true government, but rather is a corporation. And, if you want that corporation do to anything for you, you need to bond them up (indemnify them) against harm. One example…couple of guys were charged with criminal offenses. So, they contacted the county clerk and ask if they can get certified copies of the statutes that they violated. The county clerk said “Please let me know when you need these, so I can have the APPROPRIATE PAPER.” What? Paper? BOND paper. She printed a certified copy of the requested statutes for them on bond paper, they accepted them for value, and turn them in on their court date. All charges dismissed.
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[ # 33 ] March 31, 2010, 07:57 AM “During the Bush years, the administration’s devotions to unregulated free markets like the Banking and Mortgage Fiasco; not to mention borrowing for a unnecessary war put our economy in the toilet. During those years our economy operated in a very unregulated state and those were the results. So, in these sectors it was almost TOTALLY unregulated during the Bush years and this was a result of the chaos. Going in a new direction with Anarchy or Laissez-Faire Capitalism might not be what we should be striving for. “ Why do people believe Bush was in total fault for the economic crisis?? I always believed the financial crisis and the state of the economy originated from Clinton’s ideology that everyone should own a home regardless of the ability to afford it. I cant remember the name of the Bill that he passed at the moment but it basically forced banks into bad loans. Once the financial institutions start failing its downhill from there. “Add President Clinton to the long list of people who deserve a share of the blame for the housing bubble and bust. A recently re-exposed document shows that his administration went to ridiculous lengths to increase the national home ownership rate. It promoted paper-thin down payments and pushed for ways to get lenders to give mortgage loans to first-time buyers with shaky financing and incomes. It’s clear now that the erosion of lending standards pushed prices up by increasing demand, and later led to waves of defaults by people who never should have bought a home in the first place. “ |
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[ # 35 ] March 31, 2010, 06:03 PM Can I whisper about Capitalism, NID?
Come on Nid………….Monopoly is not a government related entity. You are referring to a government monopoly. A MONOPOLY “exists when a specific Individual or an Enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.[“-wikipedia This happened before the FED was created and when Common Law Courts had power. They couldn’t handle it. In addition to Monopolies you also have Cartels that will pop up. “A cartel is a formal (explicit) agreement among competing firms. It is a formal organization of producers that agree to coordinate prices, marketing and production.” “Cartels usually occur in an oligopolistic industry, where there is a small number of sellers and usually involve homogeneous products share over the market.”-wikipedia These organizations will start to develop between companies as the little businesses expand and grab a bigger share of the market. And Common Law has the same potential to be paid off. Both of these things have nothing to do with a corporation, just a business.
ALWAYS? How does this happen? I understand the efficiency and quality aspect that a small company can achieve but what else? Bigger usually trumps small and becomes of more benefit for all as goods cost less to produce. Economies of scale allow a company making a little money to make a lot of money by expanding production, business and efficiency. As bad as it is, people like convenience and one-stop shops and such. Now little companies become Big companies(not corporations like in this system). I am a big fan of Mom and Pops stores, but America likes Fast Food Chains and convenience stores and such, so…...
What do opinions have to do with my understanding of Freedom? I think the Libertarian view of Freedom is what you are speaking about. Its what the Founders of our country wanted and has since been lost to our current screwed up system. This definitely sucks because there are many aspects of it I like. But common sense telling me ANARCHO-CAPITALISM LIBERTARIANISM is better? Can you set aside IDEALS and really think about what that would be like?..................... “Dawn of the Dead” comes to mind. I understand the positive aspects if it worked, but don’t sugar coat the negative side of that kind of system. You talk about jailing the Chemical Company offenders I was refferring too. Would the jail be private as well? Voluntary? How would you guard against corruption like we have now? How would you ensure that Common Law didn’t corrupt just as fast? Or let’s say companies inflate like Standard Oil or Chase Manhattan and exploit workers and consumers alike. I think it is the point of people giving up their (life) security that draws this argument’ s most fervent detractors from the anarchic flavor. Its the Wild West now. Totally free market with no government intervention just leaves the door open for someone to come in and do it again. Standard Oil here we come! Now we recreated what we had minus the FED IMHO…...Stamp out corruption by banning lobbiests and special interest groups from poliltics, abolish the Fed and corporations, trim the fat down to skinny and start again. That’s what I think needs to be done to begin with.
OMG- I have mostlty considered myself a PROGRESSIVE but this is starting to make more sense…..
-Either way I have probably made enemies…...... Gigs up…....... Faulker Out! |
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[ # 36 ] March 31, 2010, 06:52 PM lol… See, I’m used to reading the comment sections of FARK.COM -the web’s home of leftist flaming internet nazis! Compared to what those morons say about my core liberty-focused beliefs, there is nothing that could be done in these threads here by actual truth-seeking, innovative, hard working individuals that will cause me to feel that anyone is making enemies! It’s a different mindset here -it’s the mindset of a proactive “doer”, not a “taker” or a leech (and certainly not the mindset of a 20 something year old that lives at home with his parents and has never had an ounce of responsibility, but claims he’s a 35 year old expert at something). So… all of us have a lot in common, no matter what we think we feel on certain issues. |
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[ # 37 ] March 31, 2010, 06:59 PM Okay Leftist LIbertarian is a little extreme. But my interests definitely started at the other end of the political spectrum and over the years have migrated toward the center. Yeah, I was a Dead-Head for awhile. Like I said anything too radical meaning Liberal or Conservative is outside my interest now a days. But if I had to choose…..you know where I stand…..... Just showing that there is a more left of center Libertarian. Definitely have a job. Never beleived in Welfare, only Workfare. You don’t need to be politically correct and I won’t play the race card. I have hung out with Republicans and Democrats alike since I was small. Anyway good things. |
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[ # 38 ] March 31, 2010, 07:16 PM 1) Karl Marx’s ideology goes against the very fabric of what and who humans are. It will never work for that very reason. Free market capitalism (or at least a close facsimile of it), on the other hand, goes hand-in-hand with the most successful runs that any empire has ever had for its people. 2) Collusion is fraud, and it’s one of the few roles of Government as defined in the Constitution to prosecute against fraud. 3) Wrong, wrong, and wrong about monopolies. This had less to do with common law courts than it had to do with legislation that was being “sponsored” by special interests (businesses seeking monopolies). Please do research Libertarianism and Monopolies here: http://fare.tunes.org/liberty/microsoft_monopoly.html We never had a true laissez-faire economy, libertarian society and economy, thus why monopolies took hold. 4) You still can’t grasp the fact that we didn’t live in a laissez-faire society, and by the way, the Federal Reserve Bank is NOT the first central bank that we’ve had. It’s the last. Members of the government protected and enabled these monopolies to be created, and in turn they received pay-offs. Here’s one man’s interesting thoughts on monopolies: http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2009/09/where_does_mono.html Sinclair was a smart man for his time, but he was a socialist with his view of capitalism being what surrounded him at the time when that, quite simply, wasn’t true free market capitalism. Ask yourself, did corporations exist at that time? Yes. Corporations do not exist in a free market, libertarian society. Everything is private, nothing is public. Corporations are public. 5) How do you figure that bigger costs less to produce than smaller? This is a poor view based off of what you see today. Today, if you order 1,000,000 widgets from China as a large company vs. 1,000 as a small company, the small company will get KILLED. However, we wouldn’t be going to China in the first place if we didn’t chase away all of our indigenous industry and that means smaller would be the same as larger. Larger means more overhead, and larger also means less efficiency since it’s harder to manage and less emphasis on the individual worker’s performance. Point being, mom and pop’s fast food restaurant would have no issues competing with McD’s if we didn’t have a government destroying our economy with regulation. Not only that, but mom and pop’s would most likely offer far greater service and food than McD’s, so they’d wind up putting McD’s out of business. Then again, would we even have a McD’s in such a free society? Mom and pop would be using the local farmers for their food, and McD’s would be importing. Seems like Mom and Pop would be able to sell better quality food for cheaper. 6) You’re still very free, you’ve never lost any of your rights. You and I simply contracted them away. With the consent of one parent, you were registered as a surety for the national debt. Look at your birth certificate. What sort of paper is it on? BOND paper. You’re traded as a security on the stock exchange. That all caps name on your Driver’s license, birth certificate, etc. isn’t you. That’s your Strawman, your trust fund. It’s an actual account, I believe a cestui que trust. You contract away your rights unknowingly, yet voluntarily, and voluntary slavery is lawful. We have no need of a police department in a free society. You won’t be getting very far when you try to mug someone or rob a bank, and everybody and their mother pulls out a gun and takes aim at you. Look to the Swiss. Everyone of them know how to use a gun and own guns, and they have the lowest crime rate of pretty much any developed nation. A fire department can easily be private—get a fire, call for their services, they help you, you pay them. You will, of course, have money to pay them since you’re not taxed. What I’m speaking to you isn’t a “system”. It’s the natural order of things. Man is born free, period. If you have a midwife help you with your child rather than a hospital, avoid the birth certificate and SS#, then he’s a sovereign citizen that has not contracted his rights away. Sure, it’s a bit more complicated to gets jobs and certainly no credit or loans of any sort (your signature and trust fund via your BC and SS# is needed to create the funds FOR loans and credit), but as long as your kid learns his rights growing up he’ll never be obligated for any taxes, can travel freely wherever he wishes in his private automobile, etc. You see, whatever your view on government, your opinion only applies to yourself and anybody that agrees (contracts) to your opinion. Every man is born free until he contracts otherwise. Even then, you can still rescind your signature as you were fraudulently coerced into signing as they didn’t provide full disclosure of what you were signing up for when you signed onto your SS# and what-not. Standard Oil wouldn’t be able to exploit its workers, because Standard Oil wouldn’t exist. Standard Oil WAS A CORPORATION, and corporations do NOT exist in a Libertarian society. Everything is private. Period. You wouldn’t be working for Standard Oil, Inc., you’d be working for John D. Rockefeller and any rights of yours that he is responsible for harming (unless you contracted them away upon signing up for the job), he is personally liable for. Sales tax is enough to raise funds necessary for jails. Plenty of money to go around when you’re not paying out welfare, medicare, unemployment, special interest money, etc. Stuff that isn’t needed in a libertarian society, since the economy is always gradually moving forward, with jobs always being created and creativity never being regulated. The only thing wild about the west was that it had low population and lots of fights with the natives of the area. Wasn’t as crazy as the movies make it out to be…not sure how that’s relevant to free market capitalism. Common Law is Common Law, pretty damned hard to be corrupted in there. Everybody knew the law back in those days, because it was so simple! It’s post-Common Law that people began to get ignorant, since we now have libraries have miles of statutes and codes, thus making it impossible for any one person (attorneys included) to know all of their legalese. Totally free market simply gives you two things—the right to succeed, and the right to fail, and your success is up to how well you deliver what the consumer wants. No special privileges (meaning no incorporation), just you the individual with your idea and others working with you to bring that idea to the people and market it. |
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[ # 39 ] March 31, 2010, 11:03 PM Sorry but The formatting is malfunctioning.
-Collusion would happen regardless as they wouldn’t always be called on it if they paid their way out
3) “Wrong, wrong, and wrong about monopolies. This had less to do with common law courts than it had to do with legislation that was being “sponsored” by special interests (businesses seeking monopolies). Please do research Libertarianism and Monopolies here”:
“-exists when a specific Individual or Enterprise an has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.”-wiki -“A government-granted monopoly (also called a “de jure monopoly”) is a form of coercive monopoly by which a government grants exclusive privilege to a private individual or firm to be the sole provider of a good or service”-wiki;
“We never had a true laissez-faire economy, libertarian society and economy, thus why monopolies took hold.” -Not absolutely. But there was little government regulation of business until after the 1860’s. And much less regulation than today. So, while it was not true Laissez-Faire(like rouding up) it was pretty unregulated.
5) ” How do you figure that bigger costs less to produce than smaller? This is a poor view based off of what you see today.”
-But they might have to charge more to cover their expenses than a bigger company would because they are’nt selling as much. Bigger companies are taking their business because they can do it cheaper.(like a franchise wthout the corporation). Don’t know about this one…….
-Europeans seem to be a more passive society. That’s a scary thought here. Now as well, you have mental patients and junior picking up guns and murdering more people everyday in the street until that threat stuck.
“Standard Oil wouldn’t be able to exploit its workers, because Standard Oil wouldn’t exist. Standard Oil WAS A CORPORATION, and corporations do NOT exist in a Libertarian society. Everything is private. Period. You wouldn’t be working for Standard Oil, Inc., you’d be working for John D. Rockefeller and any rights of yours that he is responsible for harming (unless you contracted them away upon signing up for the job), he is personally liable for.” -Always loopholes, pay off the courts etc. Money is king everyone needs it in this new society more than ever.
[strong]“Common Law is Common Law, pretty damned hard to be corrupted in there. Everybody knew the law back in those days, because it was so simple! It’s post-Common Law that people began to get ignorant, since we now have libraries have miles of statutes and codes, thus making it impossible for any one person (attorneys included) to know all of their legalese.
I have to say it is interesting stuff, but very unstable ground.
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[ # 40 ] April 01, 2010, 12:20 AM Paid their way out? Your mind is far too vested in this current system. You need to break free of the shackles of what you know. There is no way of paying your way out. There is prison. You can pay your way out of the current system because we are currently in ADMIRAL LAW. Tax Courts. Everything has a pay off amount. A Common Law government has no interest in your money, it only serves one purpose—defending your Creator-endowed rights. Dictionary definitions are only a starting point. They’re basic descriptions; a starter-point at best. Monopolies that aren’t given special privileges by government are not a bad thing. Let’s take a look at OMG. He, essentially, has a monopoly as nobody else out there has managed to at the very least duplicate his quality, or his costs. By continuing to keep his costs where they are, it’ll be very difficult for competitors to compete. However, is this a bad thing? The consumers benefit and that’s all that really matters. If demand is being satiated by the current supply, then the market has no need to change. If demand increases, and if OMG doesn’t increase supply to deal with demand, then the market is now open for a potential competitor. Yes, it was pretty unregulated, and we also had some pretty incredible unprecedented growth. So much, in fact, that the private bankers repeatedly attempted to construct central banks so that we would use their debt instruments (as we do today, they’re called Federal Reserve Notes) so that our debt to them would keep increasing and increasing, thus linking their pockets with our labor/credit. However, it wasn’t fully unregulated, so it wasn’t without flaws. However, the standard of living was far better then than it is now. Currently, we’re under the illusion of a good standard of living—a system of credit that will collapse and heck has been on the fast-track since 9/11 (not that 9/11 triggered it, just was one thing after another). Regarding the pay-offs, it’d be a lot harder to get away with it when you’re working with the scope of government in a libertarian society (incredibly small). There’d be no bureaucracies really, just your main 3 branches, and with the state of technology these days it’d be a lot harder for public officials to get away with fraud when there would be so few of them. Nothing is perfect of course, but keeping things small is a big first step. The bigger government gets, the more that we pay in both our credit(labor) and individual sovereignty. It’s like people that argue in favor of seatbelt laws—do you really want the government telling you what you can or cannot do? Franklin said it best, (paraphrase) “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Aside from taxation, what is a big thorn in the side of small businesses is that they suffer the same exact regulations that big ones do. With private investment, if they want to grow to the size of a company that would need to mass produce things (such as a new automobile manufacturer), a company can do that. But, if you’re dealing with small things like a mom and pop store, the costs would be incredibly low because remember, you’re not paying property taxes, you’re not paying income taxes, etc. So, prices all around in your native country (USA in this case) would be very competitive and not having to pay shipping is a huge boon as well (often, when ordering from China, they make you order massive quantities because the shipping for lower quantities often eclipses the price of the product itself!). When taxes all-around were lower, we were producing some of the best quality stuff in the world, and very damned good prices. Grandparents are a great source of knowledge pertaining to how things used to be. This is also why you’ll never see anyone with the sort of knowledge in government that Ron Paul has. Having lived through all of these changes and both an MD and politician with a passion for economics and history, that’s just a unique combination. Money can be anything. Do you know what money is? Our money right now is debt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8 That’s a real eye-opener. Money is whatever we agree on it to be. If we, tomorrow, decide nation-wide to stop using the dollar then it has absolutely no value. If I wanted a service from you, we could negotiate any sort of payment…a service in return, product, cow, pig, etc. Money in today’s society is only representative of our credit, and only we can produce credit as we are real flesh and blood beings that labor and create. Currency is backed on our “full faith and CREDIT”. That said, Common Law courts don’t work like Admiral Courts. There are no “pay off” amounts. Everyone is treated equally under the law (as opposed to “color of law” which is what you see now). Mental jobs and juniors kill people nowadays, how’s it any different? The main difference is that we can stop them a lot quicker with armed people as opposed to a group full of unarmed getting slaughtered by one armed. The stronger that gun laws are, the more that crime increases. It’s not as if the large majority of gun crimes are made by people that “legally” acquire their guns, however, it’s damned harder for honest people to defend themselves when they have to go through a whole bunch of paperwork and money just to get a gun!
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Member Total Posts: 191 Member Since: |
[ # 41 ] April 01, 2010, 10:00 PM 1) Karl Marx’s ideology goes against the very fabric of what and who humans are. It will never work for that very reason. Following our animalistic nature to some degree is fine, but unlike animals we have higher brain functions. That statement essentially confines us as humans to nothing more than, selfish, greed driven robots. Existing only to satiate some instinctual impulse(eating, sex, gambling, etc) and not help others or advance mankind. My stance Is more Socialistic in nature but without the corruption of the present system(corporations, The FED, the government)) and more freedoms in other areas. It is a balance taking the good from both and leaving out the negative aspects.
”monopolies cannot exist without government assistance “ And my response was that monopoly can exist without government assistance. I didn’t just throw that out unnecessarily. I did that to help clear this up. It was the limited context in which you said monopolies could exist that I was attempting to clarify with this formal, authoritative definition. I am not shackled in belief and I had my eyes opened a long time ago. I know a lot more about all the conspiracy theories than you can imagine because I find conspiracy theory interesting as hell. There is a lot of U.S. and World history that is lost/hidden. There are many interesting little facts, such as you have pointed out. I hope you continue to disseminate this knowledge as we should all be aware. And there is also a lot of bullshit out on the internet. You can’t believe a lot of what people tell you because it is pure fabrication, so we have to be careful. To validate something nowadays takes a meticulously thorough investigation of facts. Sites claiming endtimes and how we are going to be micro-chipped by the government all started as religious right-wing conspiracy theory fired by prospects of Armageddon and the Antichrist’s return. What will you do when the government takes our guns? Pop in the year 2012 with the Mayan calendar, “Angels and Demons” and Wa-la! Oops forgot about the Illuminati, FEMA trains and DEATH CAMPS and Ancient Alien Sumerian Rulers. I eat this stuff up like a good book. Then you see all these militia nutjobs from Michigan talking about taking on the government because Jesus is coming back and they need to defend him(I thought he had powers, wtf?) . The internet has absolutely fed this fire and blown this shit waaaaaaayyyyyyy out of proportion. We can all speculate and there are many questions to be answered, but at the end of the day????? It’s a probably a lot more interesting than it is factual, for the most part. My view is that the truth lies somewhere in the middle and I am interested if nothing else for the good story. In regards to the banks , it was my mistake to leave out the facts that there were Central Banks prior to the FED. My emphasis has been on the FED. This is because those banks never had as profound an influence over us, comparitively. Things went to hell when the Corporation(thanks for the reminder and correction, seriously) was formed and the Fed took control. These entities need dissolved, without a doubt.
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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Editor Total Posts: 510 Member Since: |
[ # 42 ] April 01, 2010, 11:03 PM Haha, interesting that you mention FEMA camps, Ancient Sumerian Rulers, etc. These are all things that I’ve looked into to a great degree. I’d highly recommend “Bloodline of the Holy Grail” by Sir Laurence Gardner if you’re interested in the Ancient Sumerian Ruler stuff. He basically lays it all out, great historical review, though my understanding is that he is in quite a few secret societies and is privy to knowledge that has been passed down from generation to generation. Conviction and execution, by the way, is working VERY well in China. Any sort of fraud equates to the death of anyone associated with it. So, people have to weigh their options…try to get away with scheming and dishonesty to make a few bucks and hope that you never get caught (very hard in today’s tech. environment), or run an honest business. I don’t agree with the notion that today is more civil. We are a nation built on the blood of innocents (the natives of the land), and we continue to shed the blood of innocents in perpetual war. I’d rather take the focus from non-domestic to domestic and fix what’s wrong here. You’re also burdening the taxpayer by keeping these crooks that wish to violate your rights in prisons/jails. Eventually, I’ll get a blog post going where I just rant about all sorts of things, haha. I figure that’d be fun and a good way to interact with everyone whether I’m right or wrong. I have a number of other things that I’m working on now thought that have to take some precedence for the site! Great talking about all of this though DM5, you’re a smart dude. |
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Editor Total Posts: 546 Member Since: |
[ # 43 ] April 02, 2010, 06:34 AM Hi Nid. You are professing a form of government is not “sellable”. In any form of government the people always have the last say. It’s just a question of how far you can push them before they revolt. I think change must come slowly by identifying an unjust law that virtually every American would be in support of changing. With healthcare I think the first law to change is to make it completely legal to buy prescription meds from Canada or any other “civilized” country. I don’t mean the current policy the government has of simply looking the other way when people buy drugs abroad. I mean to make it completely legal as long as you have a prescription. You see if the American people can legally buy drugs from Canada….well then so could Walmart, Rite Aid, Wallgreens etc. This would cause an almost 50% drop in drug prices immediately. Big pharma charges less for the very same drugs in Canada! This is not a free market and it certainly isn’t the free trade that the conservatives always try to push upon the people. But why is this never mentioned on any of the conservative talk shows? If it has it certainly has never been given the weight and the time the issue deserves. What is wrong with our so called free speech? After we get drug prices down with one simple law then we can begin to make many of these meds over the counter. That way you don’t have to waste healthcare dollars going back every month to your physician so he can give you another prescription. One step at a time….one law at a time. |
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