Propecia in trouble?
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May 18, 2010, 07:53 PM http://www.propeciaclassaction.com/ A potential Canadian class action lawsuit. http://www.propeciasideeffects.com/ Some cites to studies regarding propecia’s long term and permanent side effects. |
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[ # 1 ] May 18, 2010, 08:39 PM Yeah, there is also an Italian class action lawsuit that’s trying to get off the ground and a study that’s being formed right now in the U.S. on permanent side effects. I know Propecia has helped a lot of people. I also know that this same company lied about Vioxx risks -they completely tried to bury them. I also know that there is no way that the side effects are as low as they claim with Propecia. ...and this isn’t anything necessarily having to do with Merck itself, but I also know for a fact that there are a couple of forums today that seem to be not only heavily pushing Propecia, but detracting from other treatments as well. I think there is a financial motive to do so (my personal opinion, and no… I haven’t found paystubs laying on the ground). Also, I know for a fact that Propecia’s own studies show that a .20mg dosage is nearly as effective as a 1mg dosage, yet they stand by the bigger dosage. I also know that from Propecia’s own studies that even though the lifespan of the drug in your body is only one day, finasteride binds to the 5-AR for up to 72 hours -therefore making it so you only need to take the dose once every two to three days for it to be nearly as effective. So, I know that they chose a dosage that could be problematic due to the fact that you are getting much more of it than you need to. FINALLY, I know that you can split a Proscar tab into five pieces and it’s the EXACT same thing as Propecia -yet they charge MORE for the drug that is used for hair loss, even though it’s 1/5th the amount of the same drug for another purpose. That part to me is unforgivable. [The info in this paragraph will be a full news article very soon, by the way.] What this all says to me is that you can take one cheap Proscar pill, divide it into fifths, then divide each fifth into five pieces and take them every other day or every third day and it’d still be nearly as effective as one Propecia pill a day. So, one Proscar pill that costs a couple of bucks at the most would last you about 50 to 75 days if you did it right. That sounds SO RIDICULOUS with what we’ve been conditioned for, doesn’t it?! I stand by what I’ve said before about the “blossoming of the internet” occuring at the same time as Propecia was gaining notoriety, and I think that this was responsible for a lot of other promising treatments getting pushed aside and deemed as scams when they shouldn’t have been. For a long, long time… the internet was absolutely dominated by Propecia -and I don’t think it should have been. Also, my very first forum experiences were in the late 90’s complaining about side effects from Propecia, and I was instantly jumped on by people telling me I was a liar, I was out to discredit the best treatment ever, and I must be a shill trying to promote natural supplements. It was literally AMAZING, and the way it was systematically done made me feel that there was some financial motive going on (and I was just a dumb noob at that point and it still triggered my alarms). I’m telling you, if you guys wonder why I have a chip on my shoulder about this fraud that goes on in the forums, part of it is because of those first experiences! I know people really get angry sometimes when I state what I’ve just stated about Propecia -but I’m trying to leave out any personal animosity. I’m not spinning anything, I’m not taking a few oddball experiences and proclaiming that it’s normal, and I’m not saying that it’s an evil, damage-causing drug. I’m just laying out what’s wrong with the whole situation surrounding this drug. Anyway, those are my thoughts on it -and having said that, I probably would have continued to take it all this time because it DOES work. I have no clue about the long term side effects, but we’ll know for certain soon! -O.M.G. |
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[ # 2 ] May 18, 2010, 09:36 PM Interesting read. I’ve never taken Propecia or Rogaine myself, but I do agree that both of those treatments seem to dominate the internet (not to mention television as well) with everything else pretty much treated as garbage (except on this site and a few others). I wonder how long it will be before some of the other therapies endorsed by this site such as LLLT, herbal remedies, etc get more coverage and exposure? People deserve to know that there’s more options than just the “FDA-approved” two. |
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[ # 4 ] May 19, 2010, 04:03 PM I’ve even heard -don’t know if it’s true- that it’s possible to “cherry pick” the individuals that you want to have in the final result via loop holes. Basically, you can look at all the data and go “No, let’s not use this guy here and this guy there” for whatever reason that you reserved for yourself in the paperwork, and that helps you “round the numbers” in your favor. Don’t know how common a practice that is -and who knows, it may have been in the Vioxx trials that this happened and why I’ve heard about it. Yeah, it’s supposed to be DOUBLE BLIND -but yet, that’s clearly not what happened if they are accused of hiding side effects. Logic says that they somehow manipulated the results in their favor ON PAPER, for the permanent record. And you know what? Something tells me that if me -John Christian, OverMachoGrande- tried to do something like that, I wouldn’t get away with it. However, a billion dollar company can and does. So where is the point at which a HUMAN BEING breaches ethics and allows a company to get away with that? This is supposed to be controlled so it can’t happen. It does, though. It’s not *just* the company at fault here, it’s someone in the damn organization that’s supposed to be protecting us from this. Ok, it’s “Five Guys Burger’s and Fries” time, baby! If you don’t have one near you, you don’t know what the hell you’re missing! -O.M.G. |
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[ # 5 ] May 20, 2010, 06:19 AM As for LLLT, here’s a new question….does time of day play any role in effectiveness? Is morning better than night, or vice versa? Yes, it may make a difference ... not sure if it was daytime or night though for better results and how significant real world results would be ... especially with an underpowered LM80 ...——> focusing lens reduces light output. I believe it’s night for best results but could be the other way around. Also, don’t use right before bed otherwise you may not be able to sleep. |
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After 5 months of nothing, my new regimen as of mid December 2011 is below:
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[ # 6 ] May 20, 2010, 11:08 AM
Some have said it makes a difference regarding LLLT ... “opinions.” Not sure if it was daytime or night though for better results and also not sure how significant real world results would be ... especially with an underpowered LM80 ...——> focusing lens reduces light output. I believe it’s night for best results but could be the other way around. Also, don’t use right before bed otherwise you may not be able to sleep. |
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[ # 7 ] May 20, 2010, 05:29 PM I wonder what the long term consequences will be with this drug. Inhibition of protective neurosteriods seems like fertilizer for neurodenerative diseases. |
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[ # 8 ] May 20, 2010, 06:30 PM Long story short. Got on Propecia years ago, it lead to me to using over 5 different other medications to take up for the problems it was causing in my body. Somewhere in that time I acquired Neuropathy. I am not throwing blame and it could of been any number of things, but toxicity is one of the culprits of Neuropathy. All I know is that I had an inordinate amount of side-effects with each new drug I took. In the end the toxic approach wasn’t worth it and my body obviously let me know. Herbs and supplements were like an oasis in the desert for me and my medical problems(as well as hairloss). It is beyond appalling how much these companies lie and cover up with money. The FDA is a very corrupt government institution(like alot of them). Whatever the companies want, they usually get because they have the money. Government lobbyists payoff politicians and facilitate this process. In the end you are your best health advocate. The medical system’s people care,——-the institution does not. Research what you are taking and be sure it’s compatible with your phsysiology and by all means see an Integrative Medical doctor if possible. Just my 2 cents. |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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[ # 9 ] May 21, 2010, 03:05 PM This just in: Pharmacopsychiatry. 2010 May 18. Finasteride Treatment Inhibits Adult Hippocampal Neurogenesis in Male Mice.Römer B, Pfeiffer N, Lewicka S, Ben-Abdallah N, Vogt MA, Deuschle M, Vollmayr B, Gass P. RG Behavioural Biology, Central Institute of Mental Health, Mannheim, University of Heidelberg, Germany.
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[ # 10 ] May 21, 2010, 05:27 PM Depression was the first thing I noticed back in 2002. Then came anxiety. So I got on an antidepressant and an anxiolytic drug. I remember them also talking about Gaba and Allpregnalone levels being affected in some people as well somewhere. I know it affected me in this manner. It was like a lightswitch and everything kinda died. I didn’t put much stock in it at the time as I was between jobs and thought it an adjustment phase. Of course I didn’t used to pay much mind to these things back then anyway. That study probably describes alot of the changes I was experiencing. Then came the next ugly affect: libido loss. I was happy(in a manufactured kinda way), but I might as well have been neutered because I didn’t have the drive I used to. |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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[ # 11 ] May 21, 2010, 06:48 PM Not to be a conspiracy theorist but get ready in the next few years for a new FDA approved treatment for male pattern baldness. Propecia has long now been a generic drug. As a result it’s quite cheap. Big pharma doesn’t make shit on generic drugs. Get ready for a newer drug or treatment to get FDA approval. Big pharma seems to like to “kill off” potential competition by first destroying the reputation of the old drug. Whether it’s deserved or undeserved doesn’t really matter. That way the new drug can come out and though it won’t work any better the people will still pay premium prices for it because the alternative generic drug seems too risky. Of course the new drug, with virtually no track record, is often riskier. Vioxx was suppose to be about as effective as Ibuprofen (Advil) but it was easier on your stomach. Turns out it wasn’t any easier on the stomach but it did have the extra benefit of possibly killing you. It also cost 25 times more than Ibuprofen. |
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[ # 13 ] June 01, 2010, 08:30 AM I felt like I was losing my fucking mind when taking fin/dut. I was on them for years too. Although the brain fog has improved, I still battle with this. I hope that my cognitive abilities continue to improve. Fin/dut are simply not worth it in my opinion. It has been about 6 months since I stopped taking finasteride and I have lost some hair and will lose more but the quality of my hair is awesome thanks to my Laser Messiah. |
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[ # 14 ] June 01, 2010, 02:38 PM clgrey… We’ve got a thread called “Saw Palmetto” that really starts going into the differences: http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/192 Check it out! Halfempty… I actually took lithium orotate for one week a couple of weeks ago, and I got completely whacked out. I was depressed, couldn’t think, and I could FEEL that something was manipulating my thoughts in my brain. It was scary shit! I wanted to mention that somewhere, but I didn’t think it merited it’s own thread. It’s scary when drugs affect your BRAIN! In my case with lithium orotate, I was using it to try to help regulate my sleeping cycles. However, it’s a drug that is used to “balance out” bi-polar people, and I think in individuals like me that are generally very happy people, “balancing out” means that it’ll CAUSE depression! Awful, awful experience. -O.M.G. |
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[ # 15 ] June 01, 2010, 02:50 PM Ya know OMG perhaps you need to titrate your dose of the lithium. Obviously it’s doing something. What would 1/10 the dose do? |
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[ # 16 ] June 01, 2010, 03:35 PM Everybody else… Hey, I should have mentioned this in my last post… the Laser Babe and I are going to start trying to have kids in two weeks after her current pill pack runs out.  So, do you know what I’m thankful for? I’m thankful that I’m NOT ON PROPECIA. I think if we had a show of hands out there of the people that think having Propecia in your system anywhere close to the time you’d try to conceive kids wasn’t something you’d want to be doing, most everyone in every forum -except for the shilliest shills- would be raising their hands! On the other hand, LLLT would probably be ENCOURAGED for optimal health (if it was ever be tested like it should be. Please see my discussion on why chiropractors are actually getting ahead of the established medical community on this! Chiropractors?!). So, I know that not everyone is in the part of life where they are trying to have kids -most of you are probably like “HELLS NO!” out there- but ask yourself if you’d want to be taking something that you INSTINCTIVELY KNOW would be bad during this time period. It SHOULD BE “no”, but I know… we’re all kamikaze pilots a little bit with fighting hair loss and we don’t think about things with a rational brain. Want to see something funny?! I find this is hilarious -and I know the doctor here could be a great person and that his underlying point is that it PROBABLY SHOULDN’T be taken- but it’s still HILARIOUS to find out the medical communities sugar coating of this: http://www.hairlosslearningcenter.org/content/news/hair-loss-article.asp?CopyID=93
That’s like saying “Hey, don’t worry guys… if your pregnant wife somehow comes into contact with ONE DROP of minoxidil, you don’t have to worry as much as you previously thought”. That’s ASININE! Then, he crunches the numbers about semen and the levels of finasteride found in it after six weeks:
I implore everyone to use reason about this!!! lol… Joe… I’m not doing JACK SHIT with that lithium crap ever again -I don’t care what dose, application, etc.. Lithium now joins DMSO on my permanent hit list. I will stay away from both of them in any incarnation until I die! -O.M.G. |
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[ # 17 ] June 01, 2010, 03:46 PM
LOL! OK OK. But remember litium oranate was something I was hearing about on coast to coast am a few weeks ago. According to the guest litium oranate was the one thing most of humanity was suffering a lack of. Just goes to show we must proceed with caution.
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[ # 18 ] June 01, 2010, 04:00 PM Joe… I suppose my NORMAL lithium levels are one of the reasons why I’m in the Illuminati. I don’t need alteration to be in this enlightened state!
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[ # 21 ] June 01, 2010, 06:40 PM J87… Because I could feel that shit screwing with my entire system -including my HEART! It made it race like crazy. It was bad news all over my body. I maintain that yes, I may be extra sensitive to it which is why I could feel it’s effects, but that makes me LUCKY. I could feel it screwing with me -and it may be screwing with people not-so-sensitive to it and they don’t even realize it. The smell was outrageous, too. I only used it for a week or two at the most, and I used it in really, really weak dosages -we’re talking tiny dosages here- and it’d stay in my system for over a day. I remember two showers and something like 36 hours later, I went to go work out and all of a sudden the smell was everywhere around me! If you are crazy enough to use it, you have to have a “significant other” to be there to tell you if and when you stink, also. I think it starts going out your pores slow enough that sometimes you don’t notice it -and the taste in your mouth can build slowly, too. If you are using it, there is a good chance that you stink -and can stink for a long time. Whether you realize it or not is the question! lol… I have some here still. I don’t know why I keep it, but whenever I see that bottle, it scares me! That’s a heart attack in a bottle waiting to happen. -O.M.G. |
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[ # 22 ] June 01, 2010, 08:11 PM I just got a glass bottle of DMSO from evitamins recommended by nidhogge. It doesn’t have a nasty garlic smell like the kind in the plastic bottles. I’m not sure what they do to it to remove the fragrance. It’s possible that DMSO leaches off plastic, and that could have been causing some effects. Out of curiosity what shampoo did you mix it with? |
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[ # 23 ] June 01, 2010, 08:40 PM
This stuff absolutely has the power to change you -for better or worse (and probably whether YOU notice it or not) is up to your own body chemistry. With my “bad trip” on 5HTP, I can pretty firmly say that I am a very bad candidate for things that typically are used to treat anxious or depressed people. The lithium induced depression was a very interesting experience, by the way. I literally felt “blue”, and it was like there was a stream of cold energy in my brain that I could literally feel. The depressive thoughts were coming from there. Seriously… I could literally FEEL exactly where the thoughts were coming from! It was bizarre! ...and unnatural. Sure, I have depression like every other human in civilization does from time to time -we are geared for “physical struggle” in our lives, and when that “physical struggle” doesn’t happen, we’re left alone with our thoughts and start feeling like our lives don’t mean anything. With me, it happens more when I get really behind, keep putting things off, or get really disorganized. Well, these chemically induced thoughts weren’t like that at all. I could even TELL MYSELF that it was from the lithium, but it didn’t matter… what you think/feel is your reality! It really was an incredible experience -one that’d I’d like to never experience again, but one that will be a story for around the OMG fireplace…
This was back when we mixed it with topicals to aid penetration -not shampoos! I mixed it with a lot of things… Zix, polysorbate 80, a completely unrelated lithium topical, and some other crazy things. I tried straight watered-down DMSO the last few days to confirm that it wasn’t another ingredient, so it was the DMSO (plastic-laced or not… could have been!). Shampoos would probably be a little bit better and less harsh because less would soak in, but I’m still not touching it! That’s intriguing about the lack of smell, though. -O.M.G. |
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[ # 24 ] June 01, 2010, 10:00 PM In the proper dose, Lithium orotate or Lithium aspartate are very mood stabilizing for most people. On the other hand, prescription lithium carbonate, which is used in much higher doses is undesirable for toxicity reasons as well as potential thyroid suppression. DMSO is very useful as a carrier for a topical lithium rinse that I’ve recommended for a few years now. |
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[ # 25 ] June 02, 2010, 01:35 AM Yea IH inspite of OMG’s bad response to it I’m still gonna give it a try when I get around to it. I’ll start out with a very low dose and gradually work my way up. |
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[ # 26 ] July 20, 2010, 10:23 PM Can someone help me clarify the main differentiator between Fin, propecia etc and natural DHT blockers in how they work? My understanding is that the pharmaceuticals block the ‘enzyme’ respsonsible for the conversion of testosterone to DHT. Whereas DHT blockers like Saw P, Nettle and so on block the actual uptake of circulating DHT at the cell receptor site, including follicle receptors. Hence two different mechanisms for achieving a similar goal. Note: I have tried propecia for about 6 weeks and it wasn’t good. Brain fog, reduced drive - all of the classics. |
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[ # 27 ] July 20, 2010, 11:12 PM jads - Inhibiting DHT in such as with “herbal” methods like beta sitosterol or saw palmetto has limitations (unless they are used topically). As far as internal approaches, there is a natural way to mitigate the sensitivity of DHT, rather than suppress it strongly. My approach is to counter the real problem is which oxidation. In many respects oxidation is inflammation or leads to it. So for example, oxidative stress (think free-radicals) can suppress hormone activity. At first this might appear to be a “good” thing, but what it does is increase conversion of DHT from testosterone. Special types of antioxidants can prevent the oxidation, preserving testosterone, reducing the conversion to DHT, and suppressing inflammation. To explain how it does this is a little more complex. There are some ways to reduce the potential expression of 5-alpha reductase enzyme as well. This can be done with choosing different oils for cooking, and to optimize unadulterated essential fatty acids. For example, an adulterated essential fatty acid has been oxidized by heat, light or oxygen. Using processed polyunsaturated oils is a recipe for increased activity of 5-alpha reductase. Hydrogenated oils or trans-fat is another to avoid. However, coconut oil, palm oil, butter do not increase this expression, but quite the opposite—they reduce it. Further, stable sources of omega 3 and omega-6 fatty acids (unprocessed) can reduce this expression. GLA from Primrose or Borage can reduce this, as well as Omega-3 from krill or fish oil. Margarine and so-called ‘healthy spreads” will increase 5-alpha reductase activity. There’s a lot more to this, but these are the basics. |
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by Kazbar on 05/16/12, 8:21pm
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SuperZix II - A Homemade Topical That Can Compete with… by marb on 04/27/12, 4:15am
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SuperZix II - A Homemade Topical That Can Compete with… by The Zix Creator on 04/27/12, 2:39am
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SuperZix II - A Homemade Topical That Can Compete with… by marb on 04/27/12, 2:15am
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Pulsing Lasers with the Spectralight PulseDrive -Intro… by what_Baldness on 04/13/12, 7:20am
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by Nidhogge on 01/11/12, 8:57pm
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by dZine on 01/03/12, 5:53pm
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by Immortal Hair on 12/12/11, 5:23pm
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by OverMachoGrande on 12/12/11, 4:38pm
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Estrogen, Aromatase & Insulin by Gregsmom48 on 12/01/11, 8:45am
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