marb

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Total Posts: 41

Member Since:
May 2010

June 22, 2010, 04:01 PM

I use clay myself to clean out my hair but as you only need to soften your scalp (moisturise) with say emu oil, wouldn’t that be enough before lasering ? The reason I ask is if I go out in the sun and I have used moisturiser, I always get a good tan as opposed to not using. It’s the same with tanning oils I suppose.

The mud cleans out dirt and DHT and the oil helps the laser penetrate ?

Just a thought

OverMachoGrande

Editor

Total Posts: 811

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 1 ]

June 22, 2010, 08:18 PM

Hey, Marb!

Watch all of the first video here: http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/hairloss/page2-newsarticles/clays_for_hair_loss ...and that will explain the first part.

You’re combining two very different things… there are pre-SHOWER topicals that include clay and the polysorbate 80/ethyl alcohol mixture that I talk about, and then there are pre-LASER topicals that include oils. 

Pre-SHOWER topicals cleans out oil and sebum, and the pre-LASER topicals do exactly what you describe!  Dry skin absolutely can reflect laser beams just like dry skin can reflect sunlight (or tanning bed rays) and make it so you don’t tan as well.  This is one of the reasons I always instruct people to take a shower and use LLLT with towel dried hair -the slightly damp skin is important.  Now, with some people, it might be important to use a pre-LASER topical as well (it was for me when I experienced a chronically dry scalp), but this is a really unknown field.

Read this: http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/181/#1732  This has some really good info on what you are talking about.

All I know is that a pre-LASER topical helped me when I needed it, I theorize that it would definitely help some, and we know that Gaunitz and some other laser clinics use them.  So, we simply need more people to try it!

-O.M.G.

Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

Runz

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Total Posts: 23

Member Since:
March 2010

[ # 2 ]

June 22, 2010, 10:41 PM

Would coconut oil make a good pre-laser topical?

Joey Ramone

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Total Posts: 65

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 3 ]

June 23, 2010, 01:49 AM

I find coconut oil a good all round but you really need to just use a tiny bit because it’s hard to wash that stuff out.  Emu oil is much easier to wash out but, at least with the one I was using, my scalp was always irritated afterwards.  I’ll try some different ones out in the future though and see how they compare.

yanks1

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Total Posts: 31

Member Since:
June 2010

[ # 4 ]

June 30, 2010, 03:57 PM

Anyone else been using pre laser topicals?  I want to start as I have a dry scalp problem myself, and the drier it is the more shedding I have. If anyone can give a better idea of what kind of oil is most beneficial that’d be great. 

Joey R- What kind of emu oil were you using and can you expand on the scalp irritation you were experiencing? Was it only when you lasered with oil? Or just used oil alone? Or just lasered alone? And was it a negative irritation?

Gubter87

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Total Posts: 70

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 5 ]

July 01, 2010, 05:27 PM

I fully agree with not having a dry scalp when lasering. But is it not possible that using an oil before lasering is counter-productive? We use clays to remove oil and sebum from the scalp so that it is clean and the laser can penetrate. Wont rubbing oil on the scalp have the same effect as the bodies oil?

jdp710

Editor

Total Posts: 163

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January 2010

[ # 6 ]

July 01, 2010, 06:01 PM

Two reasons:

1.  Based on a horse and mouse study showing laser light does not penetrate if area is not cleaned well.  I believe they used isopropyl alcohol.  We use shampoo, clay, etc.. 

2.  DHT that’s found in sebum.  Don’t know if you were here for A&G fiasco but they were right regarding using LLLT and another substance in combination for better results.  Maricle even commented on it as well.  Jacob even linked using flower essences with LLLT.  Anyway, the point being that the DHT that’s found in sebum and LLLT is not a good combination if your goal is to stop hair loss.

I’ve mentioned both areas many times since 12/08 but very few take this area serious enough.  This is very important!

BaldbeGone

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Total Posts: 81

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 7 ]

July 01, 2010, 07:32 PM

so what kind of pre-laser topicals would you reccomend?

Sure, shit happens...but so does good shit!

Gubter87

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Total Posts: 70

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 8 ]

July 03, 2010, 04:43 AM

jdp710: It is probably better to combine laser with something. But wouldn’t it probably be better to rub the oil on the hair after lasering, as it could stop the laser from penetrating the skin if done before?

mj

Member

Total Posts: 227

Member Since:
March 2010

[ # 9 ]

July 05, 2010, 04:02 PM

http://www.nutrevehairloss.com/Nutreve-Hair-Therapy-System

I found this site over a year ago and agree with their philosophy….they cover all the basics from pre-topical to shampoo to internal…even a chlorine filter for the shower.

I’m not endorsing their products simply because I’ve never used their line except for a free sample I received, but I do feel that their philosophy is the right approach.

After 5 months of nothing, my new regimen as of mid December 2011 is below:

1.  Rejuveplex 1.5 droppers at night
2.  Super Zix II with resveratrol/curcumin once a day but rinsed out after 30 minutes
2.  1.25mg finesteride every day        
3.  20-30 min LLLT 3x a week    

monthly cost:  Approx. $50

Nidhogge

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Total Posts: 508

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 10 ]

July 07, 2010, 10:47 PM

Gubter—

If you were to go out in the sun with baby oil on, would you get more tan, or less tan?

Think about that.

Gubter87

Member

Total Posts: 70

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 11 ]

July 08, 2010, 01:52 PM

Nidhogge:  I’ve always been of the impression that oils used for tanning give you a nicer tan because they have a low UV-protection - so you get tanned instead of burnt.

Nidhogge

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Total Posts: 508

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January 2010

[ # 12 ]

July 08, 2010, 04:15 PM

Gubter, if that were true, then not putting anything on your skin would obviously be the lowest UV-protection.  However, that’s not how it works—when you put the oil on, you get more tan than if you didn’t.  It’s just like when you’re in the water; you’ll get more burnt up.  Dr. Maricle explained this to me on the phone a while back.

OverMachoGrande

Editor

Total Posts: 811

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 13 ]

July 08, 2010, 10:52 PM

Gubter87 - July 08, 2010, 01:52 PM

Nidhogge:  I’ve always been of the impression that oils used for tanning give you a nicer tan because they have a low UV-protection - so you get tanned instead of burnt.

You can check this out from the British Journal of Dermatology:

“Changes in function and morphology of normal human skin: evaluation using optical coherence tomography”

This was a study that tested various ointments on and hydration of the skin when subjected to Ultraviolet A irradiation.  In a nutshell and cutting out the rest of the stuff that we don’t really care about, they have this in the results:

“Topical treatment of the skin gave a nonspecific increase of penetration depth of the light due to the lower reflectivity of the surface.”

So, there you go!  I’ve had that bookmarked for almost three years, and I’ve never had an opportunity to use it before! lol… 

-O.M.G.

Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

Gubter87

Member

Total Posts: 70

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 14 ]

July 09, 2010, 05:00 PM

Thanks for that OMG… And you’re welcome, I guess…. : )

Gubter87

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Total Posts: 70

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 15 ]

July 09, 2010, 05:02 PM

And of course the follow up questions: What oils do you guys use? And how do you use them, just rub them in there?

Joey Ramone

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Total Posts: 65

Member Since:
January 2010

[ # 16 ]

July 23, 2010, 07:43 AM

yanks1 - June 30, 2010, 03:57 PM

Joey R- What kind of emu oil were you using and can you expand on the scalp irritation you were experiencing? Was it only when you lasered with oil? Or just used oil alone? Or just lasered alone? And was it a negative irritation?

Sorry yanks1, never did get around to replying to this.  The one I was using was called EmuSpirit.  At the time I wasn’t lasering, actually only started that in the lasts few weeks, I’d just started using it in the hope of reducing scalp irritation which was pretty nasty while using minox/finasteride based products.  Do hate the pair of those, screw anyone who says otherwise. 

The emu oil went on thick and was hard to wash off and only seemed to exacerbate the problem I was having which was feeling like I had a thick layer of skin on my scalp that didn’t belong to me, like I couldn’t really feel it and the irritation was actually coming from a few layers underneath… very nasty.  I’ve found coconut oil agrees with me much better although the best thing I ever did was getting off minox/finasteride.  Hope that helps.

Oh, and I’m not recommending against emu oil.  I think I was just using the wrong one and at the wrong time.  I may try it again some day if the need arises.