ACV and Lasers
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February 03, 2010, 09:05 PM For Scalpure users: Was looking over Scalpure ingredients and did some research on ACV and found this. “This week, we’ll discuss how an apple cider vinegar rinse can help to remove residue buildup, help relax the cuticle and give you beautiful light-reflective hair.” Like LASER LIGHT REFLECTIVE??? Anybody think this may affect Lasering after Scalpure because of the light reflective qualities ACV imparts to the hair? JDP can probably nail this one. |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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Editor Total Posts: 546 Member Since: |
[ # 1 ] February 04, 2010, 11:49 AM Seems to me that “light reflective hair” would be good for lasering. Afterall intead of the laser light being absorbed by the hair itself it would bounce off and some of it would be reflected to the scalp. A light reflective scalp would be another matter entirely. This, it seems to me would make lasering less effective. |
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Editor Total Posts: 168 Member Since: |
[ # 2 ] February 04, 2010, 02:43 PM DM5, Hair can act like fiber optics and absorb some of the laser light. How much, I don’t think anybody knows. However, apple cider vinegar helps to remove sebum so that would also help regarding absorption of the laser light greatly. |
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Editor Total Posts: 168 Member Since: |
[ # 3 ] February 04, 2010, 03:06 PM By the way, speaking of sebum, be careful you don’t overd removing the sebum or drying your hair out. The reason why I mention that it appeared to be a strong correlation between those complaining of not being happy with LLLT, and having dry hair/scalp. I experienced something similiar when I overdid the clay and when I wasn’t using topical coconut oil as much. |
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Editor Total Posts: 546 Member Since: |
[ # 4 ] February 04, 2010, 03:55 PM Hi JDP. I just wanted to run something by you. I believe someone said that lasers increase production of ATP. If I remember my Kreb cycle properly ATP is made by a number of chemical reactions but the main one was the need for glucose. Could rubbing a glucose type solution magnify the laser benefits? Another one of the chemicals in the Kreb cycle was oxygen, if I remember correctly. Could hyperventilating (increasing oxygen saturation) increase the benefits? Or perhaps rubbing a low concentration of hydrogen peroxide into the skin prior to lasering. Any thoughts on my off the wall idea? Could one test these ideas by making a judgment on the soreness factor? |
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Member Total Posts: 191 Member Since: |
[ # 5 ] February 04, 2010, 07:57 PM Then claying or scalpuring 1x a week would be more than enough. Seems like your hair wouldn’t accumulate toxins faster than that. As well that probably would not remove too much sebum to have a negative impact on lasering. I think though, there are a lot of people who Scalpure before each laser session. I think Nid does it. I think his results have been okay. JDP, what is your pre-laser routine currently? |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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Editor Total Posts: 168 Member Since: |
[ # 6 ] February 04, 2010, 09:27 PM Hi Zix Creator, I’m a bit rusty on LLLT so I hope I’m right but from my understanding there are two ways to increase ATP. One via food/Kreb’s cycle meaning ADP—-> ATP which creates free radicals in the process and can convert back to ADP to be used for future energy. This is the process everybody is familiar with and also is the mitochondrial theory of aging regarding free radicals. This process creates free radicals. The other one, which is the one that is important to us is via a process similiar to photosynthesis. What I mean is within our mitochondira light is absorbed and ATP is increased 120 - 150% above baseline, depending on which study you see. This increase in ATP can also be stored back to ADP to be used for future energy. This process does not use glucose/ADP to create ATP. This process also does not create free radicals. A quote “The wavelengths from 600 to 900 nm pass through blood and water in tissue more easily than other wavelengths. About 35% of the energy in this range is absorbed by a specific “proton pump” (cytochrome c oxidase, CCO, “complex IV”) in mitochondria.” Also, keep in mind ATP requires magnesium in order to be stable. Without magnesium, ATP will be burned off as heat. A little off topic but this is why I believe that some of the information regarding the benefits of Vitamin D supplementation are slightly skewed as going out in the sun increases ATP as well as other benefits beyond Vitamin D. Anyway, in short, I doubt rubbing a glucose solution on your scalp would do much if anything but keep in mind that the real researchers of LLLT for hair loss are us so it’s always worth a shot. I know previously a bunch of people talked about using light sensitizers such as lemon juice to increase the benefits of LLLT. Beware, lemon juice can bleach hair though. None of them reported back their findings though if they tried it. Copper peptides would be an interesting one as well. I believe it was cuebreeze who used them but I have no idea his results. Here is a quote regarding copper peptides and others “medications such as procaine, certain antibiotics, and copper-based local substances may enhance the effectiveness of laser energy by enhancing the receptor sites.” “Medications such as nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, steroids, and calcium channel blockers, to list a few, are thought to block membrane channels and pigment receptors (Meersman 1999), which are important for laser actions, and therefore reduce laser effectiveness.” while I’m not sure if this applies to us but another “possible” limiting factor regarding LLLT “might” be not using LLLT at night “Night-time levels of melatonin, but not day-time levels, have been shown by Tiina Karu to completely inhibit the positive effects of infrared light.” Anyway, regarding oxygen, there was one study that I remember where it mentioned the amount of oxygen available as being a limiting factor in LLLT benefits. More specifically, the less oxygen available, the less ATP will be created. At the time I experimented with a large blood pressure cuff wrapped around my head for a bit called occlusion or occlusion training. Occlusion training increases oxygen. I eventually stopped experimenting as it was too big of a hassle. hope this helps Hey DM5, Regarding my prelaser routine, I’m not losing any hair and I haven’t in an extremely long time so I’ve been mainly using LLLT to prevent gray hair, lol. So yeah, I’ve been very lazy here and only use it on occasion and occasionally clay and coconut oil. I don’t use the coconut oil or clay on any specific dates or times though just more when it’s convenient. Regarding clay, yeah, IME, I would say once per week application is what I’d use if I was still losing hair. If I used it more than I’d make sure I used coconut oil or similiar to make sure my hair doesn’t dry out. |
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Member Total Posts: 191 Member Since: |
[ # 7 ] February 04, 2010, 09:55 PM Great Info! Thanks! |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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 Editor Total Posts: 510 Member Since: |
[ # 8 ] February 05, 2010, 12:50 AM In my experience with Scalpure, due to the oil actives, hair drying/scalp drying hasn’t been an issue. Scary what jdp pointed out about night-time laser application though…as well as not using calcium-channel blockers in conjunction with LLLT. JDP— We’ve been advocated Mag. Oil prior to lasering for some time now, but Mag. Oil is a natural calcium channel blocker. Your thoughts? |
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Editor Total Posts: 168 Member Since: |
[ # 9 ] February 05, 2010, 02:22 PM Nidhogge, I know Jettset a long time ago was very adament about LLLT being a calcium channel opener but I still haven’t found any reference to this through any studies or articles on the internet. So in other words, it could be false and may be the last time I blindly take someone’s word for it, lol. With that said, LLLT does effect the sodium and potassium pumps which helps regarding calcification. Regarding magnesium and LLLT, there are many references and I even have an old book that mentions magnesium is needed in light therapy ... in reference to treating cancer. I don’t think I’ll ever change my thoughts regarding magnesium/magnesium chloride being essential in LLLT. Here’s a quote ... and keep in mind this quote is in relation to ATP “Magnesium is at the center of life’s ability to absorb light and change its electromagnetic energy into organic chemical energy.” http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_magnesiumchloride.htm hope this helps |
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Editor Total Posts: 546 Member Since: |
[ # 10 ] February 05, 2010, 08:54 PM JDP thanks for such a detailed response. That took up quite a bit of time and I appreciate it. You said this:
I take this to mean that the kreb cycle is not involved in ATP production as it relates to LLLT. Is this what you are saying? Are you saying glucose would be irrelevant because the Kreb cycle doesn’t apply here? What would be your theory as to why soreness is increased from LLLT when emu oil is applied? This is where I was sort of going in my first post. I was figuring emu oil was penetrating the skin, underlying muscle etc…..being converted to glucose and causing more atp to be produced. Would would be your most logical reasoning for emu oil increasing the apparent effect of LLLT? |
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Editor Total Posts: 168 Member Since: |
[ # 11 ] February 07, 2010, 04:30 AM Zix Creator, I poorly worded the above statement. What I’m trying to say is that LLLT is able to increase ATP and give all it’s benefits even under nutrient/glucose deprivation. So adding glucose would be pretty close to irrelevant but it’s always worth a shot. Of course we all need a little food to survive but let’s say I stopped eating and continued to use my laser helmet, those cells on the top of my head would be the healthiest on my body when I died. I would even bet that they would be just as or almost as healthy or as the time before I stopped eating food. I hope this makes sense. What LLLT basically does it turns unhealthy cells, tissues, etc. healthy again. There are some other benefits but that’s basically the gist of it. Regarding why emu oil increases soreness first let me say that I believe the soreness that’s experienced is caused by increased acetylcholine. Acetylcholine can cause muscles to contract. IME, I get sore with my old laser helmet where I had to rotate it on my head 3 times (67 lasers rotated 3 times for a total of 60 minutes per session). With my current 400 laser helmet that is used for only 20 minutes I don’t get sore and only get a head pump type of feeling where you can feel the increased circulation. The reasons why I’m saying this is my experience also would help explain that soreness is caused by acetylcholine as I’m basically contracting a muscle for 60 minutes and getting sore as opposed to contracting a muscle for 20 minutes and not. I hope that makes sense as it’s real late. Now regarding emu oil. I believe emu oil is increasing how much light is absorbed rather than reflected away. It’s the same exact thing as having a slightly damp scalp as well. For example, when going to the beach it’s easier to get a sunburn if your body is wet as opposed to dry. Again, the reason why is more of the sunlight is absorbed rather than reflected away from your body. hope this helps Here are some quotes regarding acetylcholine
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Editor Total Posts: 546 Member Since: |
[ # 12 ] February 07, 2010, 09:11 AM Hi JDP.
If that is so then the kreb cycle has nothing to do with it…correct?
To me this sounds like the Krebs cycle isn’t involved for generating ATP with laser light. Am I understanding you correctly?
But how could shininess cause an increase in light absorption? Why wouldn’t the light be reflected back? |
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Editor Total Posts: 168 Member Since: |
[ # 13 ] February 07, 2010, 12:49 PM Hey Zic Creator,
The answer is yes and no or in other words both. Yes, in that the Kreb’s cycle is not needed to increase ATP. A quote “Our cell power plant, the Mitochondria, converts photon energy (light energy) into ATP (cell energy), when there is a deficiency.” http://www.lightforhealth.co.uk/content/light-and-the-body.pdf & “If CCO in the body is able to absorb 10% of the 1E17 photons/cm^2 in the 600-900 nm range from bright Sun over 1 m^2 of skin for 4 hours, then the human body has gained about 6 kcalories, making us 1.8% photosynthetic during those 4 hours.” http://heelspurs.com/led.html and no in that the increase in ATP can also be generated by increasing metabolism via Kreb’s cycle.
It’s the same as putting baby oil on you and going in the sun ... you’ll get a tan faster than if you didn’t. I had a good article that lemming990 originally posted a long time ago about this but was one of those things that I lost when I left that other forum ... I forget the exact technical details other than it increases absorption and lowers how much light is reflected off of the skin. |
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New Member Total Posts: 3 Member Since: |
[ # 14 ] February 07, 2010, 07:15 PM concerning prelasering, what would you use to prevent dry scalp from laserlight ? emu oil, coconut oil ? Do you think it’s better to put an oil base during treatment, instead of before then wash, or after then wash next morning. So before, during, after and what exactly ? ( except clay before, then wash. Except mag oil whenever we want ) until someone says it’s really better to laser in the morning ! you probably kno guy that few lasering guys experience sunburns, and shedding or a worse condition of the scalp after few GOOD months. Good then bam. |
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Editor Total Posts: 546 Member Since: |
[ # 15 ] February 07, 2010, 08:54 PM Got it. Thanks JDP! |
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