Pulse device for laser helmet
 New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
February 07, 2010, 05:32 PM Hey all, I was talking with OMG last august about a circuit design that is inexpensive that would pulse the laser at the required frequency for increased stimulation. I forget the range,... something on the order of a few thousand hertz…. is anyone still interested in this? We would be doing this “in house” so that it would be customized to this application. At last check, it shouldn’t be that expensive, maybe on the order of $10 - $50 in materials. I have an engineering degree so i don’t mind doing the circuit analysis etc. but i will need input to make this user friendly/ useable. Let the games begin PP |
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[ # 2 ] February 07, 2010, 07:34 PM Yeah, if it works, we can get it made in China for very little money I think, and we can figure out how to make all the helmets backwards compatable for them -and obviously put them on the new ones. That way, we can get a handle on whether or not this pulse thing is as good as some companies have said it is! Speaking of helmets… time to use mine and build another while I’m watching the super bowl! -O.M.G. |
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Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com! The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss! It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY… |
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[ # 3 ] February 07, 2010, 08:54 PM I am very interested in this and would be willing to get a few of them if you are going to do individual orders! I do have a few questions though. Would the pulse units be adjustable in its frequency? If so, do you have a suggested frequency adjustability range? This would be a great opportunity to do some great group comparisons and tests! Thanks for the offer and taking this project on!!!! |
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[ # 4 ] February 07, 2010, 09:57 PM Do we have any data to suggest that pulsing a laser improves the effect? |
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[ # 5 ] February 08, 2010, 01:31 AM Hey all, I don’t want to take any credit for this because it is not an original circuit idea. I am borrowing the design from something that I believe is in the public domain. It is actually very simple to make and the calculations are simple to determine the frequency. As I said before I have got it to work on a small scale, drawing only like 20 mA. Now to get it to draw anywhere from 6 - 15 Amps will be trickier since we will have to employ the use of a power transistor and associated heat sink. Fortunately I have electric circuit software by which I can design the circuit and slowly but surely tinker with it. I think first off I will draft a preliminary report of the theory/background, introduce the circuit design, and come up with how I see it be incorporated into the laser helmet. Hopefully I can have this done in a week or two (full time job + long commute + stuff = less free time). I can then pass the design to anyone here willing to add input and who can hopefully verify my calculations etc. To Tonyb, I don’t see myself actually producing these circuits, just doing the design work. We could make it adjustable, we just have to switch out one or two of the resistors with variable resistors. These variable resistors could just be handswitch potentiometers that could be mounted on the outside of a shell and turned to change the frequency. If we wanted to get even fancier, we could install a simple LED display which would display the frequency in the circuit. I might also suggest a fuse for protection… but maybe the power supply covers this. Lets keep chugging away! PP |
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[ # 6 ] February 08, 2010, 02:20 AM That sounds awesome…the backwards compatibility thing would be a great idea too…But are there any studies that show or indicate pulsing is better? |
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Sure, shit happens...but so does good shit! |
 Editor Total Posts: 371 Member Since: |
[ # 7 ] February 08, 2010, 04:46 AM There were some very interesting findings re: pulsing back on Regrowth a ways back, but we were all under the assumption that it would add at least a $1000+ to our cost so it kinda fell into the “to look into later” category. This is incredibly good news. |
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[ # 8 ] February 08, 2010, 02:00 PM
Zix Creator, I’ve posted pulsing studies a long time ago at the old forum but I never saved them on my computer. In short, you need the correct frequency to get the results so it gets complicated in that regard as wrong frequency can = less results and even bioinhibition. My experience in LED’s (Talika) is that they definitely provide faster results but not necessarily better. |
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Editor Total Posts: 118 Member Since: |
[ # 9 ] February 08, 2010, 02:30 PM Here’s one study showing the complicated nature of using different pulsed frequencies. I’ll try and find some of those old studies from the old forum to see if I can dig up the right frequencies to experiement with
After reading what’s in bold keep in mind other studies have found better results but it’s all about the frequency. |
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 10 ] February 14, 2010, 04:00 PM Okay all, sorry to be slighly MIA for a week. The design is coming along, I am about 60% done the “report”. As I have mentioned, this is pseudo-conceptual so I might need a little bit of help making the proto-type. Does anyone here have access to electronic components/ electrical abilities/ soldering skills? I propose that maybe several of us work on the prototype in parallel. This will increase the probability of success. As soon as I am done the “design report” Rev 01, I would like to upload this on the forum. The biggest issue I can see is user friendliess or implementation into the laser helmet… it might be slightly awkward. Anyways, just look over the design when it is done. Target time to completion is Monday night, once again my apologies. Can anyone tell me how to load a PDF? Additionally, if you propose changes to the design, I will be able to input them into my electronics program that I have on my comp and run a simulation (although I haven’t used it in a while :S) Just keeping y’all in the loop See you soon! |
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Editor Total Posts: 371 Member Since: |
[ # 11 ] February 14, 2010, 10:32 PM potent— Drop me a line at nidhogge( at ) worldhairloss ( dot ) org I will hook you up with Dr. Maricle’s cell, as he’s got a phD in Electrical Engineering and should be willing to give you some guidance and help. Great to hear that you’re making excellent progress though!! |
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Member Total Posts: 32 Member Since: |
[ # 12 ] February 18, 2010, 10:45 AM Ok, so how are things coming? Anything I can do to help things along? I am eagerly awaiting news of its progress! Now I feel like one of my kids on a trip…. are we there yet? are we there yet?....lol. T |
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 13 ] February 18, 2010, 08:00 PM tonyb The “conceptual” design is done. I submitted to Nidhogge and OMG. I could use some help though. Message me privately with your email PP |
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[ # 14 ] March 15, 2010, 11:49 AM I’m sorry… I kind of let this get by me a bit. I’ll follow up with you, Potentpotable, by email today or tomorrow! I think we’re all ready to actually start trying to build this. I believe I promised you a Laser Messiah “helmet only”, too, so I’ll get that out to you as soon as I build it. -O.M.G. |
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Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com! The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss! It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY… |
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Member Total Posts: 68 Member Since: |
[ # 15 ] March 15, 2010, 03:08 PM A while back I asked the owner of lasermax (supergrow) if he knew how I could retrofit the lasermax 80 to make it a pulsed device, and he said that pulsing the lasers would most likely cause the lasers to burn out. I’m not sure if that’s true or not, as he actually has no experience with a pulsating device, but that was his only input. |
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regimen: resveratrol/curcumin twice daily |
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[ # 16 ] March 15, 2010, 07:13 PM
We could connect the pulse device to a single laser diode or to a cluster of about 10, and let it pulse continuously for 24/7 for a week or two and see if it gets burnt out of not, an easy way to know the truth!
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 17 ] March 15, 2010, 11:03 PM we need a controlled experiment The best would be to take 20 laser diodes, connect 10 to a power supply with no pulse and the other 10 to a power supply with a pulsing action and run 24/7 to determine which will burn out sooner |
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Member Total Posts: 32 Member Since: |
[ # 18 ] March 15, 2010, 11:24 PM We already know that the laser diodes are rated for 5000 hours. Pulsing cuts down the actual running time of the lasers so it should theoretically last longer in actual overall run time. So running the lasers with the pulse unit could give a close approximation to see if the pulsing cuts down on the laser life. |
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 19 ] March 16, 2010, 09:58 PM The laser diodes are rated for 5000 hours and yes when they pulse, they are technically only on for 1/2 the time, so theoretically the diodes should last 10000 hours. However, what we don’t know is whether or not turning the lasers on and off several hundred or thousand times per second is introducing cyclic stresses in the micro circuitry. I’m no electrical engineer, but I would think that this might be a problem. Devices typically run their best when they are running constantly, like an engine at a steady speed (think high way driving). Also when it says the diodes are rated for 5000 hours, thats probably the statistical mean. In a large group of diodes, some will fail early and some will last for a very long time. I had one diode out of 300 burn out after about 10 hours of use. The rest are chugging strong. We might want Dr. Maricle to weigh in on this since he is the laser master! |
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Member Total Posts: 84 Member Since: |
[ # 20 ] March 17, 2010, 01:36 AM
I am no biophotonics expert, but I already bought 4 books on the subject and am going to devour them LOL I will be sharing what I can find useful for our context. Also, I am no electronics experts but if I am correct and remember my electronics classes, there’s a threshold electromotive force of volts that give a stablished current to drive the photo diode into feeding the laser semiconductor diode for lasering to occur, before that threshold, photons won’t be emitted from the laser diode so the diode will never be ON AND OFF, but always on, just with a low enough current, it wont be just energized, current will flow, but so low that the photo diode wont be feeding the laser diode.. This is way it wont be damaged. Just my 2 cents, I am no expert in this field. |
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Member Total Posts: 68 Member Since: |
[ # 21 ] July 03, 2010, 01:30 PM any progress on this device? I still think pulsating lllt is the missing approach for the DIY user |
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Editor Total Posts: 502 Member Since: |
[ # 22 ] July 03, 2010, 03:36 PM MJ… I actually disagree with that. Most devices out there -including the Sunetics G, which is arguably the standard for laser clinics- DO NOT pulse. When I asked Dr. Maricle about this, he told me that more of the old clinic devices from the 90’s and back used to pulse, but they sort of fell out of favor. My guess as to why is because they were a lot more expensive but didn’t show that much more results. However, he also said that there has NEVER been a test of a pulsed device vs. a non-pulsing one, though. No one has EVER taken the time to compare a pulsing on to a non-pulsing one in terms of results! Can you believe that?! That’s crazy to me -but hey, this is the way of the world. I suppose it’s up to US to be the ones to do the comparison. Anyway, just tuck that in the back of your mind though as further evidence that these companies out there just don’t really care to find out what is truly the BEST, they are only interested in what works ok but is profitable. Don’t misunderstand me, though… I VERY MUCH want to get that pulsing device working so we can test it. It might be a great way to step up our results -or it might just prove not to be that great for hair loss. See, pulsing is really good for deep tissue because the short bursts can apparently penetrate deeper, but we don’t really need that with a follicle that’s only 4mm or so deep. If it doesn’t pan out as being an better for the helmets, it’d help for a lot of other things that we may be interested in doing (non-hair loss). Here is the deal, too. The reason people know about pulsing devices for hair loss is because of a gung ho marketing guy named Gaunitz. He’s a nice guy and helps a lot of people, but he wears out every consumer advocate bone in my body by selling a ONE DIODE device for $2000 and consistently says that only his laser machines (which are modified pain machines) work. Among other things, he had some dude spam the forums last year that proclaimed Gaunitz’s diodes -and only gaunitz’s diodes in the machines that pulse - could get true results or something. It was all ridiculous and I wasn’t posting then, but yeah… it was spam, and most everyone fell for it (even though if you looked at the guy’s website it said it was an internet marketing company). The reason Gaunitz’s clinic gets results is that he has a full regimen that includes LLLT, detox, etc. -the works. That’s similar to what Immortal, Joe, and I have together with our worldhairloss regimen -the difference, of course, being that we tell you exactly what’s in ours and show you how to make your own LLLT device and get your own supplements. We don’t say “My helmet is the only device that works because of a magic diode you can’t get anywhere else”, or whatever. So, that’s my feeling on it. If we get the pulse device up and running and it works as well as people have hyped… so be it! I’ll eat my words and be the first to embrace it, and potentpotables and I will figure out how to get this out so everyone can do it as cheap as possible. -O.M.G. |
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Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com! The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss! It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY… |
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 23 ] July 03, 2010, 08:20 PM I probably should get cracking on this. I have all the raw materials in my basement to construct this device, it just takes time to build it, refine it, implement it, commission it, and all that jazz. I’ll bump this up to the top of the priority list! PP |
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[ # 24 ] July 03, 2010, 09:28 PM Hey, Potentpotables! I’ve been meaning to email you! We should talk over the phone or skype video over the next few days. I had a few back to back weeks where I pulled a few all-nighters and worked every waking hour just because I was tired of always being perpetually a few days behind (this is why I haven’t posted much). When you are constantly playing catch up, it’s hard to work on other things -like the pulsing device, the hexadecapus (no, none of you know what that is), and most importantly the site videos and making this site the future of the hair loss world. Well, as a result of a couple of tough balls-to-the-walls, sleepless weeks… for the first time since August 2009, I’m actually pretty much “caught up”. I’m CAUGHT UP! HA HA! I never thought that would happen, but here I am! The psychological benefit of this is AMAZING, and I’m ready to undertake some bold ideas -as well as finally do the things I’ve been talking about -and I’m already working on some of them! Hells yeah! So, I’m taking a break until Tuesday (and recording the laser and the flowbee videos), but let’s get cranking on all of this stuff! I’m going to buy a better web cam tomorrow (that won’t be my laptop webcams that point directly up my nose) so I can fully embrace the Skype video thing. I’m going to make that available to anyone, by the way, that wants to chat. -O.M.G. |
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Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com! The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss! It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY… |
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 25 ] July 03, 2010, 11:22 PM Sounds like a solid plan good sir! I’m actually re-downloading skype as I type. So I’ll come up with a game plan and hopefully we can “connect” some time this week :D |
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[ # 26 ] July 04, 2010, 12:40 AM OMG - glad you are caught up man! Do you want me to help, as I’ve being waiting for you to get caught so that now I can introduce you to the LLLT doctor specialist (via my Life Extension connection) so that you can also ask him about pulsing, and maybe the hormonal effects of laser on e.g. (i) DHT (ii) sebum (iii) fungal/microbial activity and how different frequencies effect all these variables. And just a word to the wise on Will Gaunitz, he definitely uses lasers in his clinic helmets with many more diodes than just one, if memory serves it’s a high number; and from what I can tell his heart is also in the right place too - you’d like him…! Let me know if I can make the introduction to the LLLT expert for you OMG, I think everyone would benefit by you being introduced to the oldest, most experienced expert I know of who was written up in LIfe Extension on successful medical uses of LLLT. No promises what will happen in terms of outcome, but I’m sure my contact would be happy to write the letter of introduction or call him personally to introduce you. Give me a call ! |
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[ # 28 ] July 04, 2010, 01:31 PM LOL! That link is disgusting. I’ll tell you this, and these are new thoughts I’m having… If Gaunitz can sell a ONE DIODE device like that for $2500 -well more than twice the cost of a laser helmet with 400 diodes- then I no longer trust him on anything he says. That includes his before/after pictures. He’s a marketing guy, and I think he’s in it for the profit -and apparently pretty good because a lot of people don’t see though it. You just can’t justify that cost no matter what. $500 would still be too expensive, and $2500 is criminal in my opinion. So, if he’s selling something at a criminal price, and if he sends out an internet marketing company guy to try to build the illusion that his diodes are “magic” when they aren’t, this means that he’s doing other things that would raise our eyebrows. I no longer trust him. Wow, you know, sometimes… I wish I wasn’t so god damned ethical. I’m tired of being poor! lol… -O.M.G.
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Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com! The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss! It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY… |
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 29 ] July 04, 2010, 01:43 PM Only $2500 for the “Laser mightier”? |
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