want to make my own topical

   
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mj

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March 31, 2011, 07:01 PM

I want to make my own topical.  can I just drop whatever supplements I want to add into a bottle with polysorbate 80? 

and if so, how many pills could I add to an 8 oz bottle?

I found a prostate supplement that has a lot of natural ingredients that I think could be beneficial to the scalp and thought I’d create my own experiment.


Tried a lot of things, never stuck with anything. Don’t do that

 

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# 1 ]

March 31, 2011, 09:13 PM

The track record for people doing this is extremely poor. It would be better if you started at least with the ingredients in Super Zix II and then experimented with adding additional things. Things that have at least some theoretical chance of working.

I could point you toward some ideas if you like. Ideas I have considered or are considering.

 

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mj

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March 31, 2011, 09:29 PM

Well, the theoretical side is there.  I was surprised to find it all in one pill.  acutally, it’s very similar to the zix ingredients, with a few other ingredients added.  I think all i need to get is some distilled water and ethyl alcohol and I should be good.  First batch came out too thick.


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# 3 ]

March 31, 2011, 10:07 PM

Do you have a link to the supplement?

 

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J87

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March 31, 2011, 11:56 PM

The problem I’ve run into is most supplements don’t dissolve well. Liquid extracts might work better.

 

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OverMachoGrande

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April 01, 2011, 11:43 AM

J87…

Please go into the “liquid extracts” aspects!

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

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mj

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# 6 ]

April 01, 2011, 04:14 PM

J87…. these are gel, so I just have to poke a pin hole and squeeze the gel from the capsules into the solution.  they have zinc, saw palmetto, selenium, oleic acid,  lycopene, and pumpkin seed oil and a few other ingredients that probably have nothing to do with hair, but combined with polsyborbate 80, niacin and biotin it sounded like a good topical.

like I said earlier, the first batch was a gooky mess.  I’m going to thin the polysorbate 80   with distilled water add the gel and then see how that goes.  If needed I’ll add some alcohol too.


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mj

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April 01, 2011, 04:42 PM

zix,

the supplement I wanted to get was at Costco and I don’t have the name of it right now.  It had the above ingredients but also with beta sisterol, b6,  nettle root and a few others, but it ins’t the one I purchased.  I was lazy and found something close to it at Meijer. (grocery store)  But I plan on getting the one at Costco on my next trip out there and I’ll post the name and the exact ingredients.  Maybe I’m crazy, but it seems like prostate supps have pretty good ingredients for fighting hair loss since DHT seems to be a culprit in both. 

Lyocpene seemed interesting in a google search in turned up research stating it interfered with local androgen activation by down-regulating 5-alpha-reductase,and decreasing IGF-I.


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April 01, 2011, 06:28 PM

Different compounds have different things they will dissolve in. Zinc, b-6 are water soluble. However based on years of trial and error and input from other zinc sulfate seems to work the best. I doubt zinc sulfate is the form of zinc in your supplement but I could be wrong. Pyridoxal seems to work the best and there is even some scant evidence that the other form of B-6 (pyridoxine) could make matters worse. Beta sitsterol is soluble only in oil. Saw palmetto is extracted in glycerin. Some things only dissolve in alcohol and some things don’t seem to dissolve in anything.

The point is that expermentation in this area usually results in dismal results. Like I said earlier I think you should start with super zix II and then add one component at a time and try that for a few months. At least with Super zix II you have a formula that has a track record of success. Then you move on from there.

If you want to experiment I could point you toward a topical you can make. You then apply for 20 minutes and then shampoo it out of your scalp. In vivo experiments suggest it cuts DHT by 40%.  Then apply Super Zix II after that.

 

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mj

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April 01, 2011, 06:38 PM

zix that is perfectly sound and logical advice and I will follow it to a tea when I fall flat on my face in the next week or so…but right now I have the mad scientist bug and gotta let it play out.  I think we’ve all been there at one time or another.

But trust me, I appreciate your words, I really do.


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mj

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# 10 ]

April 01, 2011, 06:40 PM

and YES, elaborate on the DHT topical.  That sounds interesting.


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mj

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# 11 ]

April 01, 2011, 06:42 PM

I’m thinking my end goal is to create a blend of natural and pharmaceutical.  Something with a little propecia in it along with a lot of other good things…but no minox.


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mj

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April 01, 2011, 06:45 PM

miconozale nitrate and propecia as my pharmaceuticals mixed in a topical similar to ZIX II with other ingredients..something I could leave on overnight as a I slept and wash out in the morning.


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April 01, 2011, 06:58 PM

Get yourself some bayberry powder, ethyl alcohol and glycerin. Then take the bayberry powder and put about 2-3 heaping teaspoons on a coffee filter. Then using a piece of string, wrap the coffee filter around the bayberry powder and tie it up with the string. You’re essentially making a bayberry tea bag.

Jam as many of the tea bags you can into a quart bottle mason jar. Fill it up with ethyl alcohol. Let it sit for a week or so. Pull out the tea bags.

Now you have about a half a quart jar of dissolved bayberry in alcohol. Now fill the rest of the jar with glycerin. Mix it up good but you will find that the stuff mixes easily. Now apply to your scalp for about 20 minutes. Then shampoo it out.

Bayberry is a substance shown to cut DHT 85% invitro and 40% invivo. Not bad for something you put on your scalp 20 minutes before showering. The glycerin should nullify the drying effects of the alcohol. I haven’t experimented with it yet myself so you will still get to feel like a mad scientist!

 

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mj

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April 01, 2011, 08:45 PM

interesting link to all kinds of homemade potions with instructions, including one with bayberry

http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss-info/waseda-hair-loss.htm

(the zinc oxide formula doesn’t have the correct link , but the others do)


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April 01, 2011, 08:52 PM

Yep. Saw it. But the formula I’m recommending won’t have the draw backs of that formula. Gunkiness, possible staining (though I doubt it), easier to make, less mess in making, reduction in the drying effect of the alcohol.

Yea if you have any questions designing your topical just email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address). Maybe I can help. Also two heads are better than one! Got to go to work now. Won’t be able to respond further until tomorrow. Good night.

 

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mj

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April 09, 2011, 12:25 PM

Zix was right…my homemade is not a good creation. 

But now I think I’ve found what I’m looking for.  The bayberry sounds like a good plan, but first I want to to see how topical avodart works.  At much lower dosages, the side effects should be minimal. 

I’m going to be mixing topical avodart with tricomin or spectral RS (non minox).  Right now I have Tricomin so I’m just waiting for my avodart to come in the mail so I can get this experiment going.  But i like the idea of mixing natural with pharmaceutical so I’m leaning towards using topical avodart mixed with spectral rs down the road.


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ninja4hire

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April 09, 2011, 03:25 PM

I added caffeine and emu oil to the zix II.


My Regimen:
400 Diode OMG helmet 20 min x 3 per week, super zix II w caffeine and emu oil 2x day, Regenepure Dr shampoo, pre laser topical (poly 80/acv/olive oil), Scalp exfoliation w/ face scrub.
Internals: n.o. shotgun (for workouts) fish oil omega 3s, DIM

 

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April 09, 2011, 05:47 PM

Hi Mj. I’m not sure if fin or avodart actually work topically. It’s more like it gets absorbed systemically and then works that way. But you have to be careful. One dose is oral and one dose (the topical dose) could be going directly into the blood stream. So you could very well end up with side effects. I think after John’s article on propecia one should be very careful with propecia or avodart.

I’m certainly no expert on topical avodart though. Just be careful and do your research first. Sometimes those side effects NEVER go away even after stopping the drug.

Just be careful my friend.

 

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Nidhogge

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April 09, 2011, 11:41 PM

mj—

No, that won’t work unfortunately.  A few years ago, I tinkered with trying to learn how to formulate, and quickly realized that there was good reason that people went to school for cosmetic chemistry, and that it’s a bit more complex than I originally imagined.  The equipment involved is very expensive, and the professionalism required isn’t cheap.

Right now, we’re working on an incredibly potent topical made with a blend of ingredients that are actually specifically tailored FOR hair loss and anti-aging with human studies behind them.  A professional chemist is working with us, and after the formula is nailed down, it’ll be going through intense microbiological and stability testing at a lab facility to make sure that it’s going to be both safe and effective for personal usage.

If you are interested in tinkering around, you may wish to get some DMI from BulkActives.com for absorption of actives.  If you want to get something into solution that doesn’t blend with water (such as resveratrol), use some vodka or 151, and you may even wish to throw some lecithin with your actives in a blender to create a simple liposomal mixture.

 

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mj

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April 11, 2011, 04:09 PM

Nid, 

From what I’ve found so far topical dut has conflicting reports of effectiveness.  I can’t determine if it addresses scalp dht at the site of application or as a roundabout fashion of systemic absorption as I’ve read both have been claimed.  I do agree that these issues are confusing and not easily handled by bathroom scientists like myself but there are people on other boards that swear by topical dut.  I’m going to use alcohol to dissolve the dut and mix it with tricomin, although there’s already alcohol in there so it may mix on its own.

Can’t wait for your topical though…sounds like a masterpiece…and maybe a perfect addition to your supp line.  How far out do you think you are from bringing it to the market?


Tried a lot of things, never stuck with anything. Don’t do that

 

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J87

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April 12, 2011, 02:44 PM

I read something interesting about soy isoflavones, that “They decrease androgen receptor expression and genistein and daidzien both inhibited whole cell assays of alpha five type two at close to ninety percent, and had some inhibition of type one also. Topical soy decreased sebum excretions by 65% at week five, indictating anti-androgenic potency in human skin at least at the sebaceous gland level”
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=46360

 

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dj_davo

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April 13, 2011, 03:53 PM

Maybe try some capsaicin too.  There are peer reviewed studies that show capsaicin regrows hair - although it was via subcutaneous injection.  Topical capsaicin however, in the fat loss formula ‘Eviscerate’ works.  Numerous bodybuilding forums praise it, and I use it too, and it definitely does work.

I assume it must be the alcohol in that formula that makes it absorb well, so adding some cayenne pepper to a topical with alcohol should work?  In fact, I may order some Zix soon and add some cayenne myself.

 

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