Clinical Lasers

   
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NDW

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April 01, 2011, 10:15 PM

Anyone here use clinical lasers and a home made laser helmet? How would you compare the two?  I see there is a large discussion on pulsed lasers. I think its important to note that only the handheld laser is pulsed in the patent. Also, the patent claims that 650nm lasers are outside the “preferred wavelength range.”

Are you guys getting jaw dropping, clinical strength results with your 650nm lasers or is there something better?

 

IGNORE

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OverMachoGrande

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# 1 ]

April 01, 2011, 10:50 PM

NDW…

First of all, I’ve been told that they have changed the information posted in the patent for their clinical machines very recently.  I don’t know EXACTLY what they changed, but I think this is why you don’t see this any longer.  From what I have heard, it’s basically not quite as “descriptive” as it used to be.  So, whatever… regardless of that, the laser clinic machines by Erchonia do indeed pulse.  Everything they do does.

I actually have many customers that were former laser clinic customers.  I think it’s safe to say that most of them AT LEAST have the same results, but many of them have better.  Some of that could be the fact that once they know about my device, they also know about what other things they need to do to maximize their potential.

The laser diode with the greatest track record of success is BY FAR the 650nm diode with the lenses removed -that’s what I do, the Sunetics G does, the MEP-90, and a lot of others.  I’ve got some threads here somewhere where I go into WHY 650’s are used, and it basically all boils down to cost and that there aren’t any real differences in red wavelengths in terms of success.

Also, the 650nm are actually closer to 660nm -for some reason, the industry still refers to them as “650”.  Just thought I’d point that out.  Now, as far as that patent talking about the “perferred wavelength range”, “preferred” for what… their marketing?  smile  Actually, yes, that would be the only reason!

I have most of the text written for an article that I’m writing called “COMMON LLLT DECEPTION”, so this will answer many of your questions and help draw attention to some of the deceptive marketing that companies do with wavelength, power, the makeup of the diodes, etc. by giving real life examples that we can all point to and laugh at together.

I’ll try to post that soon -I think it’ll be a good article, and I think I might put it in the “Featured Contributors” section -even though it’d be weird that *I* would be a featured contributor.  Why would I put it there?  Because I need more featured contributor articles, and I’m working on another LLLT article for the main section right now and I’m trying to keep the site from being laser laser laser laser laser.  lol… 

Anyway, it’s extremely safe to assume that if you hear one company saying that their diode is better because of X, Y, or Z, they are just “touting” or something.  The red range works equally well for hair loss, and the reason this diode is used commonly is because of COST.  You are welcome to buy $10-15 a piece 635nm diodes and have equal results -that’s what you’ll find, and I know plenty of people that have done that and said “OMG, you were right.  It’s the same as 650”.

Now, PULSING right now is something that we are going to get to the bottom of.  There are many things that suggest pulsing at certain frequencies with LLLT, electicity, vibrations, etc. have an effect on the human body.  HOWEVER… most of the talk about pulsing with laser therapy for HAIR LOSS has come from the manufacturer Erchonia -and these are ones that were used by the marketer William Gaunitz before he sold his clinics.  Is it all marketing?  We don’t know -there is great science behind pulsing, but it’s hidden behind the fog of this industry!  It might be the same, it might be amazing.

To date, there has NEVER been a side-to-side test of a pulsing unit with a non-pulsing one, or any sort of comparision like that.  So, we can’t really say “there is no difference” for a FACT.  We can guess and hypothesize or whatever, but like with my helmets, for example, I can’t tell you that I used it non-pulsing for a year and then pulsing for a year and did/didn’t notice something/anything because it never has been done.

Keep this in mind, by the way… you would think that every manufacturer out there would have tried all sorts of combinations of diode patterns, diode densities, heights, pulsing, etc.  THEY DON’T!  The biggest test done was by US -our group- in 2007/2008, and the end result of that was the Laser Messiah!  THAT is the device based on tests!  In fact, it’s also worthy of mention that the reason that the Erchonia machines pulse is because all the did was modify their existing pain machines -they didn’t do all sorts of massive testing for hair loss.

So, it only stands to reason that now that we know that Zone is getting close to nailing the design, it’s time for us to test this to see if it adds anything.  If it does -fantastic!  Once again, we’ll be on the cutting edge.  If it doesn’t do anything else… then, well, it’s something that gives clinical strength results anyway.

It’s worthy of mention that the vast majority of laser clinic devices DO NOT pulse, and none of the approved FDA devices do.  But in a world of copycats -and in an industry dominated by misinformation- this means nothing!  The best tweak could still ne unknown because people aren’t trying them on a large scale out in the open like we do!

Anyway, there you go!

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

IGNORE

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NDW

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# 2 ]

April 01, 2011, 11:46 PM

First of all there are cheaper diodes. I have some 7mW 635nm diodes that i bough off ebay. Theyre 7mW 635nm and if u buy 10 they are 2.50 each + $2 shipping BUT the starting bid is $19 dollars so u can get them for that. If you buy 100 im sure you can get them for much cheaper. However, these diodes are very tiny and have 3 prongs, not wires, making them difficult to work with. Also they are undiffused, and im not sure if its possible to diffuse them. The seller of these diodes is “lasers4u.”

In my opinion Gaunitz seems to be a results driven company. I have seen ridiculous before and after from them that seems to defy the “30 month window,” unless these people are going from a Norwood 2
to a Norwood 5 within 30mos. Also im sure a big portion of their results are due to a complete regimen, not just LLLT. Gaunitz has introduced things ive never heard of before like a 2 part minox formula. I talked to Gaunitz and he said minox can become ineffective in as little as 2 yrs. He said the 2pt system was to slow the tolerance to minox. I see this as innovation. Perhaps this is just the touting/marketing that you are talking about.  Basically, from what ive seen Gaunitz gets the best results and has the most “innovative” treatments. Thats why i was trying to follow their footsteps using 635nm.

As far as most people using 650nm CW lasers; i dont think this has any weight because there is MUCH to be discovered regarding LLLT and MPB. Like you said these companies dont do all kinds of testing on different setups. 100yrs ago MOST millitarys were shooting muskets at each other. I think there is more to be squeezed out of LLLT.

And John, you seem to have a healthy head of hair. Are you in this as a hobby/pioneer and to help people or is there still room for improvement regarding your hair?

 

IGNORE

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OverMachoGrande

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# 3 ]

April 01, 2011, 11:53 PM

I’m going to bed so I’ll answer this more later, but I should have given more background…  Gaunitz has some extremely deceptive, bullshitting marketing to the point where once you see it laid out, you will probably find it very hard to think of him as an innovator.  Knowing what I know about him now (and I’ve covered it on this site so you can search for it), I absolutely question any claim coming from him or his clinics.

He’s absolutely “ethically challenged” for sure, and if I can’t trust what he says about the products he’s reviewing, then why in the hell would I ever listen to what he says about the success of his clinics. Is it more likely that going from a Norwood 5 to a Norwood 2 is magic that only his clinics are getting with a “tweak” with minox and a different laser, or is this a claim or an elaborate presentation made by a marketer?

I’ve seen his other unethical marketing, so I’m assuming that everything surrounding him is utter bs.  Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder because I’m sick of this crap that goes on -and yes, he’s flooded the forums with hit and run posters with cut-and-paste, canned scripts straight out of an mba program that tout his magic diodes. It’s nonsense.  He’s GOOD at it, though… He has half the hair loss world buying into his pitch.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

IGNORE

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NDW

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# 4 ]

April 03, 2011, 12:50 AM

Oh wow, im looking forward to hearing more! If one thing is for sure he is very money hungry. His products are ridiculously overpriced. He likes to sell $3 worth of ingredients for $80. I cant stand shallow greedy bastards like that. Take Youtube for example. Here is a multi-billion dollar corporation and now they have commercials in their videos. Seriously? All the billions of dollars arent enough? People like this are miserable souls. And i have to agree with you, alot of successful business men are very unethical.

 

IGNORE

 
   
 








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