FIBROSIS… And getting rid of it?

   
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LEGACY2010

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June 01, 2011, 05:52 PM

Does anyone have first hand experience dealing with fibrosis on the scalp and ways to get rid of it? I’ve been trying to find away to basically resurface my scalp without causing any further damage. 
Soo here’s what happened I thought I would be a great idea to shave my head and use a type of sandpaper buffing pad on a couple spots where I have some issues. BAD IDEA!! So now when my hair grow I have two round spots where there is some scarring and I want to get rid of it. It not deep scarring bi its there! 
So I’ve used eznzyme peels which are great for cleaning the scalp, but they haven’t done much for this scar tissue. 
So what are some options to try I was thinking about Nanofibrin which sounds good but does it really work??
There are more deeper peels such as TCA peels which I know nothing about and I’m not to sure if they will damage tue hair or the scalp?
If anyone has any info or advice please let me know. 
Thanks for reading!!

 

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Lapwing

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# 1 ]

June 01, 2011, 08:10 PM

The problem is anything that works deep could cause more scarring.  I would be very careful on that.  N-A-C as supplement works well for fibrosis, but it is not going to get rid of major or old fibrosis.  I would definitely recommend it though for controlling future and reducing somewhat your current fibrosis.

 

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LEGACY2010

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# 2 ]

June 01, 2011, 08:28 PM

I feel that a TCA peel would be a little extreme and could penetrate to deep. There are also papain and bromelian which are supposed to help with scarring.
Ive found a couple peels that have both bromelian and papain enzyme but can be sure how well theyll work!!
Lastly theres nanofibrin which is supposed to address fibrosis but Im not sure how that works either!!
Soo I would like some feed back!!

 

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LEGACY2010

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# 3 ]

June 01, 2011, 08:35 PM

As for enzyme peels I’ve found these one I’m sure people have uses and one that I stumbles across.
Here they are:
http://www.renaudnaturals.com/pppenzymepeel.html

http://www.buynaturalskincare.com/pumpkin-enzyme-peel-p-298.html
http://www.dermstore.com/product_Yam+&+Pumpkin+Enzyme+Peel_8554.htm

Let me know what you think!!

 

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J87

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# 4 ]

June 01, 2011, 10:46 PM

Topical papain/bromelain/serrapeptase, or topical iodine is probably your best bet. With peels or dermaroller and such it may be a good idea to follow up with copper peptides, or something to moisturize the scalp to promote healing (coconut oil, shea butter, etc), maybe even topical NAC or taurine could be beneficial in preventing further scarring.

 

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LEGACY2010

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# 5 ]

June 01, 2011, 11:16 PM

J87 - June 01, 2011, 10:46 PM

Topical papain/bromelain/serrapeptase, or topical iodine is probably your best bet. With peels or dermaroller and such it may be a good idea to follow up with copper peptides, or something to moisturize the scalp to promote healing (coconut oil, shea butter, etc), maybe even topical NAC or taurine could be beneficial in preventing further scarring.

Where should I look to find info on this? Has the enzymes help reduce fibrosis? I really just want to resurface my scalp but don’t want to further injur my scalp in the process. I rather find some way to remove it rather breaking it down. I’ve used enzymes for about a year and haven’t help much removing this skin.
This stems from brushin to hard, heat damage and over processing chemical hair services.
My hair grows but I think my scalp could be in better shape without this thick layer of skin taking over my scalp.

 

 

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Lapwing

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# 6 ]

June 02, 2011, 12:53 PM

As far as I know, I don’t think anybody has conquered significant fibrosis.  It seems in the balding wars, 20% improvement is about as much as anyone can achieve outside of a transplant.  For fibrosis alone you might get 50% improvement at best.  What are your expectations?

 

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LEGACY2010

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# 7 ]

June 02, 2011, 01:06 PM

Lapwing - June 02, 2011, 12:53 PM

As far as I know, I don’t think anybody has conquered significant fibrosis.  It seems in the balding wars, 20% improvement is about as much as anyone can achieve outside of a transplant.  For fibrosis alone you might get 50% improvement at best.  What are your expectations?

Lapwing
Well I would want to have high expectations! Im jus not to familiar with some of these products only things I’ve used.
Like the enzyme peels for instance. Great for cleaning just doesn’t cut it for fibrosis.
How is that we can resurface or faces but can’t our scalps!
If this is possible then I would like to know I should try!
Which brings me back to nanofibrin which is intended for this purpose but I haven’t heard how well well it works.
TCA peels might be an options but sound dangerous, but I can’t say for sure. And I’m also afraid of burning my scalp because that’s what cause my proplem in the first place basically burns to the scalp.

 

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Lapwing

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June 02, 2011, 06:43 PM

Why do you mean they resurface faces?  They don’t really.  Most of that resurfacing for example by lasers just remodels temporarily the existing collagen cells and elastin fibers.  Soon as they die off and replace and themselves as they normally do every few years, the magic resurfacing goes away.  I am sorry but nobody nowhere is beating this stuff at the moment. 

 

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NDW

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# 9 ]

June 02, 2011, 11:49 PM

Lapwing- Could he not just have his scalp ‘resurface’ every few years? Also what do you mean when you say ‘It seems in the balding wars, 20% improvement is about as much as anyone can achieve outside of a transplant.’

LEGACY- I would definitely try topical Lugols on your scalp. Lugols can regenerate scar tissue back to normal.

 

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Lapwing

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# 10 ]

June 03, 2011, 01:12 AM

i just mean the highest expectation one can hope to have at this time (imo) for more coverage from regrowth and hair thickening is about 20% more, which is about improvement of 1/2 NW.  Yes some people do get a 1 NW reduction, but that is so rare you can’t count on it.  Hell, it is hard most people to just halt their hair loss.

It is good to have enthusiasm, but please know your enemy.  MPB and fibrosis are kicking everyone’s ass right now.  There is some promising stuff in the future, but who knows when it will come about.

Btw, I want to be wrong.  So please prove me wrong, I would welcome it.

 

 

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NDW

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# 11 ]

June 03, 2011, 01:50 AM

I wish i could prove you wrong too. The only thing i can even disagree on is your percentage in my own experience. I would say i have about a 70% improvement and still improving, and thats without LLLT. But im sure alot of that is because of the massive reduction of toxic levels of stress. Immortal Hair was right. Toxic levels of chronic stress will absolutely Turbocharge your hairloss.

 

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LEGACY2010

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# 12 ]

June 03, 2011, 02:08 AM

NDW - June 02, 2011, 11:49 PM

LEGACY- I would definitely try topical Lugols on your scalp. Lugols can regenerate scar tissue back to normal.

NDW
I’m interested in how the Lugols actually works.

Also regardless of the hairloss I feel that having an maintaining a healthy scalp has alot to do with producing strong healthy hair.
For me I know my issue stems from an unhealthy scalp and years of abuse to it. I also can see the damage done. When I mentioned resurfacing I used my face for example. You can remove the imperfection to achieve smooth radiant skin, why can’t you do they same to remove the damage and imperfections on the scalp.
All I want to do is shed a bunch of layers off the scalp so that I can rejuvenate it normal tone and texture. Without damaging or injuring my scalp further…
Is that too much to ask for.

 

 

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Nidhogge

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# 13 ]

June 03, 2011, 10:50 AM

I’m not 100% certain on this, but if you were to thoroughly massage in a good quality magnesium oil prior to sleeping and after exfoliating with a boar bristle brush, and do this regularly, it may “decalcify” your scalp and help to reverse that scar tissue/smooth it out.

 

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# 14 ]

June 03, 2011, 12:40 PM

NDW,

From a prior thread you said to me, “Lapwing - The results ive gotten are with the big 3. Maybe later i’ll explain why i have had good success with it while alot of others have not.”  So why are you now crediting IH?

To my mind I would say you are one those great responders to propecia, which I know do exist.  70% improvement is radical and almost unheard of in MPB.  In fact I don’t think I ever heard anyone claim that level of improvement on the boards.  I suppose if one catches their baldness early enough and they are a 3 sigma plus responder they can get that level of improvement.

 

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J87

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June 03, 2011, 08:27 PM

What do you guys think of carnosine for fibrosis? n-acetyl-carnosine eye drops have been reported to dissolve cataracts and floaters (think dead tissue), so maybe it would be useful topically.

 

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NDW

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June 03, 2011, 08:58 PM

Im not giving credit to IH. He stated on his website that perhaps stress is the fastest way to lose ones hair. Or something like that. And he is right.

Perhaps 1/2 the reason 70% is unheard of is because so many people pick and choose what treatments they want to use, and they dont use a wholistic approach which is necessary.

 

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Lapwing

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June 04, 2011, 12:53 AM

The thing about stress related hair loss is that is more connected with alopecia areata and Telogen effluvium than androgenic alopecia.  So yeah if you have significant stress related hair loss then if you address that effectively you will have a much greater chance of growing back your hair since alopecia areata and TE are much more easy to treat and tend not to cause permanent baldness if caught early enough. 

This is one of the major problems with understanding baldness is that there are many forms and each form has many causes.  Therefore it is hard to separate the apples from the oranges.  Alas one man’s cure is not necessarily the cure for others. 

I agree a holistic approach is the way to go since you can’t really separate the different causes so it is prudent to address all possible mechanisms and forms of baldness.  And as you get older you are going to be attacked on all sides anyway. 

 

 

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NDW

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# 18 ]

June 04, 2011, 03:39 AM

I have Androgenic Alopecia. Stress will significantly speed up MPB aka Androgenic Alopecia.

 

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June 04, 2011, 01:20 PM

My understanding is that stress speeds up the appearance of Androgenic Alopecia by augmenting it with the other two major forms of baldness, TE and Alopecia Areata.  Are there any studies that shows that stress significantly speeds up specifically Androgenic Alopecia.  I would imagine stress has negative effect for MPB, but I think its negative effects are expressed primarily or at least at first in the other forms of baldness, which are more treatable and cause less permanent damage and fibrosis.

I suppose stress over a long period will screw your whole body up with added belly fat, cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, and wreck your hormone levels completely and effect MPB via this way.

 

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NDW

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June 04, 2011, 09:14 PM

Legacy have you decided to try either the Mag oil or the Lugols? Maybe both?

 

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LEGACY2010

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June 06, 2011, 02:01 PM

NDW - Not sure yet! How exactly can you tell what fibrosis looks like? Ive been looking at my scalp and I think it’s more of thickened skin and not fibrosis. I’m going to a light TCA peel just to see how it works and see if I peel. We"ll see how things go!

 

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June 08, 2011, 11:17 PM

Well now that I think about it.. I’ve been looking into Lugols iodine and Iodine in general actually can cause the skin to peel and rejuvenate itself. Now is it safe??? How long will it take to peel??? How many layers will it remove and peel???
Lastly is it safer than a chemical peel??  Anyone know!!?!!??

 

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NDW

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# 23 ]

June 09, 2011, 12:14 AM

I believe it to be very safe, thats about all i can tell you. Here’s a couple links

http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/510/


http://www.thyroidscience.com/cases/Derry.Iodine.Regen.6.7.08.pdf


Alot to read!

 

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NDW

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# 24 ]

June 16, 2011, 05:34 AM

Another thread on Fibrosis - http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/377/

 

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LEGACY2010

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# 25 ]

June 16, 2011, 12:28 PM

Thanks NDW
Ive actually read that post before. Thanks though!!!
Here’s and update..
I did try a light tca peel. A 12.5% with 2 or 3 layers.
Since then I haven’t had any peeling but my hair does look slightly better. Soo here my dilemma, I’m thinkin on going up a notch to a 20% but I’m kinda FREAKIN OUT MAN!!! I also haven’t heard back from Nid either soo that’s that! But still kinda of scared. Not looking to do the whole wounding type protocol cause my hair is there it’s just my scalp doesnt look at all healthy along the top. Not sure if I should gradually step up or take the plunge, with out burning the scalp again like i did with hair dyes and straighteners!!! Any advice!???

 

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J87

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# 26 ]

June 16, 2011, 09:14 PM

Try it on one small area to see how it turns out. I think iodine is probably stronger than tca (at 12.5% anyway), but I have no experience with tca, just read what others have posted. I’ve used sand paper on my scalp before too years ago, but there was no scar left. Maybe the laser helmet prevented scarring.

 

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June 16, 2011, 10:13 PM

Well just an update: just took a hot shower and have been peeling like CRAZY.. overall scalp looks better that before although those two patches are still there! Boo
I personally think the iodine migh be just a little messy for me. Anyway I’m thinking of trying a different brand of peel next week and doing another 2 layers until I reach 5 with the 12.5% and moving forward from there. Don’t want to go gun-ho with the peels would like to gradually resurface my scalp. Although I’m still unclear weather it’s scar tissue of just thickened skin from abuse.
The first peel I bought was from MUAC but think of trying Plantinum Skin cares peels because during the firs application I spilled most of the peel while applying it! Which sucks. Soo anybody have a opinion on the peels lemme know. Also don want to go above 20% and the the thing I like about PSC is thet have basic peels not 100 to chose from. And the lady at MUAC said do 3 - 2 weeks apart then wait 3 months!! Really don’t want to go that route but researching now to see what people think about PSC. Worth a shot i guess!
I also been using LLLT for about almost 3 months soo hope that also help too. I just want those thin spots GONE….!!!!

 

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LEGACY2010

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# 28 ]

June 23, 2011, 09:00 PM

Here’s an update:
After finishing peeling last week. I literally just finished applying another tca peel. The 12.5% if we forgot!! Any-who! I went and applied 5 layers this time to my scalp and face lol… Well to report the two areas in question seem to have frosted somewhat and are currently red at the moment. Soo will these bad areas peel of…? Guess will have to wait and see..
I HOPE!!! as far as the pain level I give it a 2 or 3 nothing horrible sooo I’ll post again to let everyone know what happens and where I go from here..
Thanks for reading…

 

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J87

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# 29 ]

June 26, 2011, 12:31 PM

I’m considering getting the tca peel. You may want to apply some vitamin E after the peels to help prevent scarring. If you go up to 20% let me know, I have pretty bad fibrosis of the scalp and I think it is my main problem.

 

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June 28, 2011, 07:16 PM

Yeah it’s prolly the BEST peels ived used that actually gave me a real peel. As for the scarring when using the lower % of tca peels under 30% or soo or any peel for that matter you most likely will not scar. That why I went with the 12.5% also you can layer it to increase the strength by 25%. I think lighter peels every few weeks are better for me them a crazy deep peel that I might injure myself with!! Just my opinion. Although I did layer it five times ... Will I do that again…??? Maybe!!! Haven’t peeled yet for this round soo can’t say for sure.. But one of the larger spots does look alot better and seems to be filling in slightly.. But it’s too early to make that assessment just yet. But will be updated this process. Atleast until I thicken that hair in those spots or untill the spots are GONE!!!
I have a hunch that I won’t start peeling till Thursday or the weekend soo ill be updating again soon!
Chao!

 

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# 31 ]

July 06, 2011, 09:37 PM

Hey all..
Just another quick update on my peels and scalp!! Well as everyone knows I did 5 layers with the 12.5% TCA peel. This time not that much peeling except were my problem area is!! Although it does look like the areas in question are getting smaller and the hair is becoming more pronounced. VERY HAPPY!! YAAAAYYYY!!
so here my question??
Soo where do I go from here?? Continue using the 12.5% in layers which 5 layers I believe is somewhere about 20 something or should I step up to a higher percentage??
Will the lighters peels be beneficial or will penetrating the skin a little deeper help improve the skin quality??
I’m just a bit nervous and don’t want to go to deep keeping it around a medium depth type peel?
If someone can help me figure out what might be the best option!? And what is too much and too deep for the scalp? Anyone with any pointers.. Please feel free to let me know!! Otherwise I might just do another layered 12.5% in the next couple weeks.
Thanks for reading.
Chao!!

 

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July 28, 2011, 10:23 PM

Okay so here’s another update!!! Last week I gave myself another peel this time using the 21% Tca peel.. I managed to get 4 layers before i fell like i was going to sceam!!!! I only really frosted in a few areas. Also I have not yet peel but usually don’t until about ten days or soo. Things look good but maybe someone might be able to answer this!?? The peel I used was from makeup artist choice and I know there peels have higher ph levels which are good but yet prevent the peel from penetrating deep. From observing my scalp only in the places where the scalp really frosted and darkened the hairs have become darker and look great… And the hairs have thickened almost to normal. Soo I want to know if anyone has experience with any other peels because I’m tempted to use a 30% tca peel from this same company or perhaps trying a different peel. But as far as I can tell things are lookin really good. Just really need to fully penetrate the scalp to achieve good results.. 
Also reading lots of info in tca peels that for areas with thicker skin 25% or above are the direction you should go.. 
Anyone have any tips or pointers please let me know! 

 

IGNORE

J87

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# 33 ]

July 29, 2011, 11:40 AM

I received the 25% peel from amazon and have been applying 3 layers to various scars, and spots on my scalp. It’s too early to tell anything yet but so far I’m satisfied. I think this will be great for fibrosis. Idoine and enzymes take more of a long term commitment of application. I plan on making a mixture of vitamin d, a, and e to apply afterward, as well as copper peptides/nano silver. Still not sure how many layers you could do without damage. Maybe consider doing one layer, then after the skin peels do another 3 layers on top of that? I’ve also thought about dermarolling then apply the peel so it goes deeper, this could be a bad idea though, definitely wouldn’t do more than one layer with a low concentration.

 

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LEGACY2010

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# 34 ]

July 29, 2011, 12:09 PM

Hey J87 good to here the good news. Which brand of peel did you use?? Also do you know the ph level of the peel as well?? Also I wanted to know if you got that darkening effect to the skin in the area in which you have treated??
Keep me posted on your progress!!

 

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J87

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# 35 ]

July 30, 2011, 12:48 AM

That would be the Skin Obsession brand. No idea what ph level is. I get the darkening in some areas but that’s the dead skin that will peal off a week later, then it should just be pink underneath. You’re not getting permanent darkening on the skin are you? That would indicate scarring.

 

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# 36 ]

July 30, 2011, 11:03 AM

Okay thanks for the heads up!!!... Using this peels also on my face the areas that darken penetrated deeper and peel the best. Also I don’t think it’s possible to scar with these home peels because you have to use a peel higher then 50% and even then the ph level has to be around .5 or lower to cause that much damage. And I looked and the ph level of your peel has a ph level of one.
My goal is to get a even and deep enough peel to make the whole top of the scalp turn brown and get that good peel. Maybe priming with alcohol first might help. I’m also going to fing out what the ph level of the peels I been using and find out how to achieve a more even peel. Keeping in mind the area that I’ve been working on has decreased drasticaly. Soo this go round might be a winner!!!

 

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# 37 ]

August 05, 2011, 05:42 PM

Here’s another update guys!!!
Over the weekend I did indeed peel.. Things are looking good. My thinning area are gradually thickening and getting smaller. In the next few weeks i will be hopefully doing my final peel. I’m taking the plung and doing a 30% tca with a ph level of 1.3 - 1.4 which isn’t to bad.
I’ve decided to go with the 30% because of the thickness of the scalp and with the lower % I was having trouble getting a good frost. Soo this attemp Im going to gauge it and base the peel based on the amount of frosting achieve. With that said I hope this will give me a good enough frost to penetrate evenly and thicken the small area left.. Sooo I’ll be back when I’ve done soo.
Keeping my fingers crossed!  Wish me luck!  Lol
Thanks for reading!!!

 

IGNORE

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# 38 ]

August 18, 2011, 04:59 PM

Two quick questions i hope i can get quick answers to…

1. N-A-C: can someone direct me to some reading about this. also, where to buy it and the method(s) in which its used.

2. scalp peels: links to a few credible brands/types of peels.

Thanks guys!

 

IGNORE

 
   
 








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