Liquid, Topical EDTA -eradicating the calcification at the source (?)

   
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OverMachoGrande

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September 08, 2011, 11:09 AM

I’m starting my experiment with LIQUID, TOPICAL EDTA -and I want to give some background and pose some questions.

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EDTA is something that needs to be covered more and paid attention to, and might be something that all of us need to do for a period of, I don’t know, six or eight weeks.

I don’t want to cover it here because the information is pretty wide spread so I encourage everyone to google “EDTA, Calcification, but essentially it’s a chelation agent.  Action->Reaction actually put together a good article on the benefits of this for fighting hair loss, and I swear I’ll get that up at some point and we’ll make a video that shows his face.

I, like a few others, have absolutely convinced myself that the reason that you can’t easily grow hair that has been long gone -no matter WHAT conventional treatment you are using- is because those follicles are ENCASED IN CALCIFICATION.  Calcification is your body’s natural reaction to repeated, chronic inflammation.  I also think that this was somewhat common knowledge before the internet happened to explode right as propecia was gaining fame (and the propecia junkies successfully made it seem like stopping DHT is the ONLY PATH to success).

Now this is where EDTA plays a potential role here for us.  EDTA has an advantage over other chelation agents because it allegedly binds to calcium deposits MUCH BETTER than other things while not damaging any tissue (as opposed to, say, folic acid -which does break down calcification but can really hurt you).  It can ELIMINATE calcification of tissue.

The two problems with it are that it’s slow acting and doesn’t penetrate well.  Well, here’s the thing… the older I get, the more I think that “penetration” is sort of a crock.  We aren’t trying to make Transdermal Patches when we use hair loss topicals… we’re trying to penetrate only 4mm.  Plus, I’ve seen things that state that topicals actually go into the hair follicle pretty easily -and maybe some of the problem with hair loss is that LOTS OF THINGS get into the follicle pretty easily.  I could be wrong about all of that, but those are just my thoughts.

As far as slow acting, I have no idea how long it would take -but the ORIGINALLY INTENDED PURPOSE of this liquid is a six week course, with small maintenance doses (for artery cleansing and heart health).  As far as I know, no one in the history of the world has applied this topically yet, lol…  so I have no idea if it could even function this way but it makes sense to me that something like this could be applied DIRECTLY to the tissue since we’re not worried about going all the way through the body.

Ok, I received my liquid EDTA a little while ago -literally about an hour ago.  As you can see by the label, it claims to be 100% EDTA.  It says that the ORAL dose is 14 drops with 2 ounces of water:

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...and it has a warning that this is hella concentrated, so you HAVE to mix it down when you take it:

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So, of course, because of my dedication to science, I put it on my head full-strength straight away without any hesitation.


Here is the GOOD THING… it’s not overly greasy, and you could possible wear it on your hair in public -so that’s the first test.  It spreads pretty well, too, so you could apply it at least in your thinnest areas without using too much (this is a $50 bottle, so it HAS to go a long way).

Here is the bad thing… it stung like a mutherblanker in concentrated form.  I could tolerate it for about ten minutes, then I caught myself rubbing my head so much that I started sweating, and that made the whole thing worse.  I added a blast of water to my head from the sink, rubbed it around, and now it’s fine.

I kind of am happy that it stung, though… it tells me that this actually does something.  Ok, so moving forward, I suppose that I’m going to have to mix this down.

Orally, you are supposed to mix it with water, so I’m considering that -and I’m considering trying the 14 drops to two ounces, although I’m afraid that might be too week for the scalp.

I am also considering mixing it with ethyl alcohol; however I have no idea whether this will chemically change the solution.  If someone is a chemistry buff, feel free to chime in.  This could potentially solve any possible penetration issues, although if the stinging was an indicator, it felt like it penetrated some.

So, any thoughts on this would be great.  By the way… I use MYSPACE for my picture hosting now, believe it or not!  Nobody else is using it, so why not.  It’s a good free picture gallery/storage dump.

-O.M.G.


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Lapwing

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# 1 ]

September 08, 2011, 01:41 PM

OMG,

I will be interested to hear how this works in a few months.  I agree on the scarring and calcification limiting ones regrowth potential.  I not sure this will really work.  It may free up some of the semi-viable follicles that aren’t too calcified or fibrotically scarred over, but I think the long dormant ones are scarred up permanently and no amount de-calcification is going to revive them.  But hey a 5 to 10% improvement is way better than none.

Are you going to do a scalp massage thing as well?  I would think that would help facilitate the process.

 

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# 2 ]

September 08, 2011, 01:52 PM

Ah yes, but that’s where THE LASERS COME IN!

I’ve got a follow-up post coming in a little while, by the way.  I’m having to upload a video, and I’m waiting on that.

-O.M.G.


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# 3 ]

September 08, 2011, 02:43 PM

Ok, after thinking about it, this is obviously an ACID.  Duh… it’s even in the name (that’s what the “A” stands for).  So, without really knowing for sure what I’m talking about here, it seems to me that mixing this together into a weaker topical and STORING IT might not be a good idea.  Ethyl alcohol is pretty neutral, and who knows what your local water’s PH is.  I’m not sure if it’s the best idea to keep those things together because it’s going to break down the acid.

It may not be a concern… it might stay EDTA, but to be safe I think that it would be good to mix it up EVERY. TIME. I. USE. IT.  I want to be sure that I’m putting EDTA that is going to be effective on my head.

It sounds like a pain in the ass, but I really think we only have to do this for a short time anyway (which is going to work out to be “ONE BOTTLE” for me).  Here is how I’m going to be mixing this:

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I’m going to play around with the dosages, but what I just tried was 1ml of water, 1ml of ethyl alcohol, and five drops of the liquid EDTA.  It was ok… it didn’t sting.  That 2ml+ was a great size for covering my entire scalp.  I feel that my scalp might be SLIGHTLY oily, but I’m not sure it is because I had that debacle earlier using it full strength.

Oh, obviously I should have kept my finger on the end of the syringe when I shook it up.  Whatever… it was “live TV”, and like the finest actors… I only do one take.

I may try 10 drops tomorrow.  The bottle says that it contains “1000 drops”, so 10 drops twice a day is 50 days -and that’s a really good time frame I think.

Am I going to stick with it?  I don’t know -that’s the TRICK isn’t it!  I don’t know if my hair is going to end up circus orange or what, either, but hopefully everything will be fine.

-O.M.G.


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# 4 ]

September 10, 2011, 03:35 PM

EDTA…
In my previous life when I was chemical engineer, I used to order 20 tons of liquid EDTA each month, at something like $0.50 / kg !
EDTA is essentially irritating for eyes, you should strictly avoid contact with eyes (wear protection glasses).
Although it has ‘acid’ in his name, it acts as the opposite, pH=11 at 1% (acids are pH<=6).
And given this I wouldn’t apply this on my skin.
Also it shouldn’t be soluble in organic liquids such as alcohol.


+ I just read its product sheet and it says it is not, or very slightly, irritating on healthy skin, yet irritating on abraded skin (at least for rabbits LOL)

Still, as I said,  I wouldn’t apply this on my skin smirk

 

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Tritium

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# 5 ]

September 12, 2011, 02:59 PM

EDTA will be very alkaline and so not terribly good for your skin. However you could add acid such as white vinegar to push it towards a more neutral pH and be kinder to the scalp.

Below pH8 EDTA becomes far, far less soluble. The question is if that is a big deal or not. You’ll have to find the balance between a strong solution that is very alkaline or a weak solution that is kinder to skin. You could for instance just go with a weak solution but use it for a long time.

Also it’s worth noting that the scalp is not a closed system. If there is an excess of EDTA the normal flow of blood will wash it away. This might be good because local undissolved EDTA might then dissolve in. But I’m speculating heavily.

In my limited opinion I think that it’s gonna be ok. Carefull babysteps, patience and observation will see you through.

I gotta say, thanks for doing this, you are one dedicated, crazy mofo!
Yours


Tritium

 

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# 6 ]

September 16, 2011, 11:08 AM

lp69 - September 10, 2011, 03:35 PM

EDTA… In my previous life when I was chemical engineer, I used to order 20 tons of liquid EDTA each month, at something like $0.50 / kg !
EDTA is essentially irritating for eyes, you should strictly avoid contact with eyes (wear protection glasses).
Although it has ‘acid’ in his name, it acts as the opposite, pH=11 at 1% (acids are pH greaterthan=6).
And given this I wouldn’t apply this on my skin.
Also it shouldn’t be soluble in organic liquids such as alcohol.


+ I just read its product sheet and it says it is not, or very slightly, irritating on healthy skin, yet irritating on abraded skin (at least for rabbits LOL)

Still, as I said,  I wouldn’t apply this on my skin smirk

Hey, LP69!

Yeah, I looked into that in the beginning before I started.  What I found -and this could be in error, of course- was that there are essentially two types of EDTA, EDTA for industrial purposes and EDTA for consumption.  I believe that the EDTA for industrial purposes is magnesium based, and the EDTA for consumption is sodium based.

The product that I am using IS INDEED DESIGNED TO BE EATEN.  I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit, and I can’t name anything that’s designed to be eaten -not even in capsule form, but a liquid that will come into contact with the gums, the tongue, and the throat- and wouldn’t be safe to put on your skin.

Now, whether or not it’ll do anything, I’m not sure! lol…  Anyway, the experiment seems to be going pretty well!  It only slightly stings with 10 drops in each mixture, and it’s frankly not really different than a mild scalp peep or something.

SPEAKING OF WHICH… I’m actually going to start using the scalp peels once a week during this time to improve penetration.  I figure the less dead skin around, the better.

Yep, I may be crazy, but I’m feeling pretty good at this point.  So far, zero damage to my hair, and that’s a major consideration.

-O.M.G.


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lp69

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# 7 ]

September 18, 2011, 03:46 AM

OK there are different forms of EDTA, disodium and tetrasodium salts of EDTA for example, which are chelating calcium but are toxic.
The cosmectic industry is indeed using EDTA in some products, but only to stabilize their formulas, and probably at very low level.
Before you use the product you noticed, which could be a diluted form, you should make sure that it still has real chelating capabilities so as to not defeat the purpose !

Edit: ok by looking at the pictures of the product, it seems that is is *real* edta, and 14 drops in oz makes a final 0.5% edta solution, probably ph 10.5
I wouldn’t certainly drink that !! Now regarding skin application, as the label mentions, it is irritating, so I would try it for a few weeks on sample skin areas before putting it on my scalp wink

 

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September 18, 2011, 01:07 PM

All I know is that it says “An Advanced Oral Liquid EDTA Chelation Formula of 100% EDTA”, and they do have a sophisticated website (not really fly-by-night) with a program to follow (and maybe testimonials), so I have to ASSUME that it is at least somewhat legit! lol…

Anyway, I’ve been using it a week, and I still think it’s ok.  With something like this, I’m only planning to use it for six to eight weeks anyway.  I don’t think this is something that needs to e (or should be) permanent.

It’s the best hair styling product I’ve ever used, though, so I may keep it around just for that!

-O.M.G.


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# 9 ]

December 04, 2011, 08:26 PM

I’ve been using Allergy Research Group Liposomal EDTA for the past few weeks. I can’t tell if shedding is occuring since my head is shaved. I think liposomal is the way to go if experimenting with this, since you don’t have to worry about diluting it or adding alcohol.

My guess as to why it caused mass shedding for you, OMG, is because EDTA causes mineral excretion. http://www.riordanclinic.org/research/articles/89014936.pdf
Magnesium, zinc, and copper might be pulled out of your scalp as well as calcium, so it’s a good idea to supplement with minerals topically and internally while doing this.

 

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December 07, 2011, 01:49 PM

Hey, J87…

Yeah, that could be the reason why!  Whatever the reason, the shed was AMAZING -it literally shed in areas where I wasn’t losing hair (but applied it there)!  I think it trumped the minox shed I had in 2003.  So, NO ONE do this!  Ha ha ha!

It’ll come back in 3-6 months so I’m not too worried.

-O.M.G.


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