Dry hair using LLLT

   
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dZine

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October 18, 2011, 03:06 AM

Hello everybody!

I was wondering if you also had the experience of very dry, straw like hair after a LLLT session?

I always take a shower and use Revita shampoo or Nizoral 2%.  When coming out of the shower my hair feels (and looks) quite OK. However, after I have put the helmet on for 20 minutes and further dry my hair , my hair feels very dry…

Any recommendations on this?


Furthermore, I was wondering what you experience during LLLT? I feel absolutely nothing..It’s just some red light shining on my head. Do you experience a feeling?


Thanks!

Sander

edit: I know that ketoconazole tends to dry your hair..but the LLLT seems to worsen this somehow.

 

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OverMachoGrande

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# 1 ]

October 18, 2011, 10:32 PM

Hey, dZIne!

I might not be around tomorrow/Thursday to get back to you, but I will be back after that -I’m working my tail off so I can get out of town on Friday!

Yeah, I’ve heard what you are saying a couple of times, and it’s usually linked to a chronically dry scalp -basically, your hair isn’t getting the sebum it needs to spread up the hair.  This happened to my hair,  JDP710’s, and several others after we over-clayed ourselves.  It literally took several months of using lots of different oils for me to get back to normal.  It’d be ok looking, but when you LLLTed, you really noticed.

During this period, my head also didn’t feel AS MUCH stimulation, but I think there might be something unrelated going on there that actually isn’t a problem.  I’ve found that lots of people just DON’T feel any stimulation like that (Joe the Zix Guy is one of them!).  I don’t think that’s related to the problem you’re having -I think it’s just how some of us are wired!

What I’ve also noticed is this, and so far I’m batting 1000 with these findings, so let me know if you are any different:  The people that DO feel tons of laser stimulation are also the people that DO get sexual side effects with Propecia.  The people that DON’T feel tons of laser stimulation are the people that DON’T feel side effects with Propecia.  So, if you’re one of the types that have tried Propecia and didn’t notice side effects, then you fall right in line here! lol…

There was something else like that, too, but I can’t remember what it is -but basically my “theory” is just overall sensitivity!  I’ve found that pretty interesting.  The lasers are still doing their thing, but the nerves aren’t relaying the sensitivity to your brain or something.  Anyway, that’s off the point, but I thought I’d share that.

Back to the oils, I really think you should look into using some oils before your shower on laser days -or maybe whenever you can.  You don’t have to go crazy here (I actually think leaving oils in your hair can be a little irritating).

I don’t know exactly how to solve it, but from what I’ve seen I truly think that there is something going on with an overly dry scalp that isn’t allowing the sebum to coat the hair.  From my experience with this (and one more time this spring from a second drying issue), I switched over to using oils until my hair got better.  I really don’t think it matters which as long as it seems to help hair loss -emu, sea buckthorn, neem, whatever- I just think you need to get some oil up there.

-O.M.G


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Luke

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# 2 ]

October 19, 2011, 04:44 PM

I try to go for a run before I get in the shower pre-laser because I find it increases stimulation by almost double, maybe something to do with pores opening up?

I also wash my hair about once a week (on a non laser day) with just conditioner and only semi wash it out to help with dryness.  If my scalp feels dry I use a bit of aloe Vera gel to calm it down, thankfully that hasn’t really been a problem for me

 

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dZine

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# 3 ]

November 14, 2011, 08:32 AM

Hey guys,

could someone please explain a bit more about oils..
As discussed in the story above (and other fora) I currently have quite a itchy schalp, most likely due to dryness.
To fix this I would like to start using oils.

However, I have read many different stories..From olive oil to specialized 100$ oils.
Furthermore, as I live in the Netherlands it can sometimes be quite hard to get the products you are all talking about.

A friend of mine advised me to use ‘baby oil’ Rub it in before going to bed. Leave it in all night and wash it out the next day (together with your pillow wink.
What is your opinion in this?

Thanks for your help!

 

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Lapwing

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# 4 ]

November 14, 2011, 10:57 PM

dZine,

My recommendation:

Cut out the Nizoral, it has hcl acid in it.  That really damages the hair and scalp.  They put the hcl to cut through the dry scales, which is not bad for the short term.  But in the long run it is not good because it is so drying and damaging to the scalp and hair.

Use oils instead.  Virgin organic coconut oil and tea tree oil is a natural “nizoral” equivalent.  These oils work better for me than Nizoral diid.  With oils my scalp itch went completely away!  On lllt days gently rub the oils into the scalp.  Let the oils sit for 15 minutes to an hour and then wash out with a good organic non-sls shampo.  This works well and there is no overnight problems with pillow cases etc.

Then llllt about 15 minutes or so after shower.  Hair should be slightly damp and scalp mostly dry.  So this method helps scalp health and at the same makes the lllt more effective.

 

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NDW

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# 5 ]

November 15, 2011, 11:34 AM

I never have to worry about my hair being too dry, no matter what i put in it. This is because when my hair is still a little damp i put a knitted winter hat on, then allow it to dry. This keeps moisture in the hair/scalp, and prevents hair from getting frizzy and such. Like i said the hat is knitted (or something like that) so it has little holes in it, which allows your scalp to breathe.

 

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dZine

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# 6 ]

November 15, 2011, 12:08 PM

Thanks for your information.
I did not like the Nizorail anyway, so probably a good thing to cut that one out of the regime.

Unfortunately, the things you mentioned are hard to get here!
I spent 60 minutes in two stores and could not find it..
The closest thing I could find (and bought) is this:
Inecto Pure Coconut Oil Glossing Spray http://www.chemistdirect.co.uk/inecto-pure-coconut-oil-glossing-spray_1_11512.html

and this one
Inecto Pure coconut oil Leave-in conditioner : http://www.naturalhealthpharmacy.com/shop/product.php?productid=4013

Do you think this would be good?

Furthermore, it is almost impossible to find a non-sls shampoo, those bastards!

 

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Lapwing

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# 7 ]

November 16, 2011, 01:05 AM

Probably it is ok for a start, but you really want something like this:

http://www.iherb.com/Artisana-Coconut-Oil-Extra-Virgin-16-fl-oz-473-ml/27183?at=0

http://www.iherb.com/Desert-Essence-100-Australian-Tea-Tree-Oil-2-fl-oz-60-ml/3586?at=0

Surely you can find something on this online, if not from iherb then maybe some online place in the UK which is not too far away from you.  I did not know the Netherlands was so backwards on health food items.  I have been to Amsterdam, but I didn’t go into any health food stores.  I did wander into some your “coffee” shops.  I wish our coffee shops had that stuff here in the states!

 

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OverMachoGrande

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# 8 ]

November 16, 2011, 07:59 PM

Hey, dZIne…

I’ve been thinking about it, and actually the thread here reminded me of it, and actually got me thinking a little bit differently:
http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/669

When you settle on what oil you want to try, I’m thinking it’d be best for people with dry hair problems to NOT take a shower first, but put on oil instead.  Then, use the helmet like normal, and then shower it out.

A lot of clinics do it that way (including the one in the link), and I always thought that it was just so they didn’t have to do two showers.  But… maybe the HYDRATION part of the shower trumps the sebum-removal, and an oil that penetrates well will do a better job of hydration than the shower will. 

Ok, aside from the hassle of two showers, one of the reasons I didn’t ever settle on a pre-laser topical was that I felt like it was TOO STRONG for me -I don’t think it *was* too strong, but since I feel a lot of stimulation, it would sometimes give me a headache.  Well, I’m saying this because I put oil on before the laser helmet WITHOUT a shower today, and it felt the same way.  So maybe that’s a good indicator that it’s working just as well despite the lack of shower, and this means we don’t have to take TWO showers!

So, I’ll try it a few more times before I’m certain, but I think I need to make an addendum to the rules here.  Use the laser helmet a shower with damp, towel-dried hair -unless you have really dry hair or a dry scalp.  In this case, put oil in your hair (we’ll still have to compile a list of oils that don’t block LLLT -I use emu oil), use the laser helmet, and then shower out the oil.

I think this will solve problems for some people!  Try it and let me know!

-O.M.G.


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Lapwing

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# 9 ]

November 16, 2011, 09:50 PM

OMG,

I know they do that at clinics, but won’t the oil get everywhere on the inside of our helmets?  Sounds very messy and I know my helmet would be hard as hell to clean.

 

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# 10 ]

November 17, 2011, 11:29 AM

Lapwing…

That is a good point, and I don’t really know what to say to it except that it seems to only be limited to the bottom of the bristles.  That could be wiped off pretty easily, but in the times I’ve used a pre-laser topical before in the past, I never had to do it.  Of course, I never did it more than a few weeks at a time!

I think it’d be really hard for oily hairs to actually get up into the brass casing and leave residue that would block the laser light, though.  I’m not worried about that part, but I have no idea what will happen if we did this for a year straight.  Maybe alternating between oil / no oil would be enough to wipe the oil away because the dry hair would wipe it a little.

Anyway, I’m not going to worry about it at this point because I’ve already learned time and time again that the problems you THINK you are going to have are never the problems you actually have! lol…  So, might as well do it, and then report the findings!

Just checking the bottom of my helmet this morning, I *thought* that I could maybe feel some oil on the bottom of the bristles, but I wasn’t really sure.  Hopefully it won’t be a problem, and if it is… we’ll deal with it!

-O.M.G.


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# 11 ]

November 17, 2011, 12:36 PM

Oh, if we want to go full steam ahead with this, we really should start experimenting with a niacin additive to the oil topical.  I’ve come across a TON of research that says the more blood flow in the area, the better the laser therapy results.


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# 12 ]

November 18, 2011, 12:53 PM

Lapwing…

Out of curiosity, do you heat the coconut oil up first?  I know it comes solid.  It melts easily, but I don’t know whether just placing it on your head would melt it on it’s own.

-O.M.G.


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Lapwing

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# 13 ]

November 18, 2011, 06:21 PM

OMG,

I am usually too lazy to heat it up.  It will melt in my hands and/or while rubbing onto my scalp with no problems.  I currently put on hemp seed oil, then coconut oil, and then tea tree oil.  I recently added hemp seed oil for increasing ceramides in the scalp, which is supposedly good for combating hair loss.  (The black hair community has a lot of posts about hemp seed oil and it is all pretty positive.)  I now wait and put on TTO for last 10 minutes, since it is pretty intense and I apply it fairly lavishly(several dropper fulls).

 

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dZine

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# 14 ]

November 21, 2011, 07:02 AM

Good to see you guys are onto this!

I never feel any kind of stimulation.
Not during LLLT.
Not when applying polysorbate80+niacin.
Not when I used minox for a few months..

I am not sure what this tells me, but we have discussed it a few times before.
Hopefully we will be able to settle on one specifil oil which is a good pre-LLLT topical soon.
Even better if we can buy it in Europe!

Update:
for now I have the following things:
- Polysorbate 80 + Niacin http://minoxidildirect.com/polysorbate_80.htm
- coconut oil
- olive oil from the kitchen:P

Haha just wondering what you would advice me to try. Order a bottle of emu oil and mix it with the poly80+niacin?

 

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Lapwing

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November 22, 2011, 02:29 AM

dZine,

I almost always feel stimulation from LLLT.  My oil combo works for me.  Good luck!

I am oppose to Emu oil for myself since I am mostly vegan.  Plus I remember this guy a long ago telling me how killed emus with a baseball bat, it was just sickening to me.  I am sure a lot of places humanely kill them, but I just can’t forget that story.

 

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November 22, 2011, 08:05 AM

dZIne…

I’ve really been researching and testing out a lot of oils over the past few days, and coconut oil does seem like it’s THE SOLUTION for dry hair after lasering.  If you’ve been checking out that “niacin” thread, you’ll see that I’ve asertained that there really isn’t much extra benefit for using coconut oil DURING laser therapy, but if that’s the only oil you want to use, it probably wouldn’t hurt either.

Coconut oil is one of the few oils to actually penetrate the hair shaft and make thicker and healthier.  What I do now is use emu oil with niacin first, then use the helmet, and then put on the coconut oil for about 20 minutes afterwards -and therefore the coconut oil will be much more effective on the scalp.

Coconut oil is a solid at room temperature, so what I do is use a plastic spoon (I buy a box of them for this because it’s really hard to get the coconut oil off of real spoons!) and scoop a little out, then rub it in my hands for about ten seconds and it gets liquid enough to spread it on.  It’s actually sitting on my head NOW!

Lapwing…

Here is how I feel about that, and this is a true story:

Almost a year ago, I had a whack-job crazy British woman attacking me saying that I was an evil corporation that was charging a profit on the back of hard working poor people, and I should be absolutely ashamed of myself for all that I’ve done.  She actually told me over and over that I should be ashamed of myself, and asked me how could I live with myself being that I was “rich” and taking advantage of the poor.

Well, after I picked up my jaw off of the table and increduously finished showing everyone I knew what she said, I checked my bank account, and I then looked at how I was working 12-18 hours a day, seven days a week, and then looked at my rental house and my 13 year old car with 324,000 miles, and then I looked at my countless hours of forum contribution over the past many years -never mind the fact I spend almost all my free time answering email for people I’ll never even meet that want help (including 33 back-and-forth emails with her before she “turned”), and oh yeah, I tell people how to make their own laser device for free.  Needless to say, her story didn’t pan out!

She SAID IT though.  She had no problem saying this baseless slander about me, and she said it because of her bizarre, immature IDEOLOGY -NOT because it’s rooted in fact (this was when those British riots were going on, by the way).  This was backed up by her later attempts to extort me by threatening to say I was making cancer causing devices if I didn’t pay her money.

So, whenever I hear things like “people kill emus with baseball bats to make emu oil” -without any real evidence to back it up- I don’t pay attention to it.  I think more-than-likely it’s as slanderous as that crazy woman was to me.  I’ve never heard anything like that, even after reading thousands of comments about it over the years, so if those statements WERE said, I guarantee you that there were good people in the emu oil business that were as equally personally hurt by those statements as I was with my ridiculously bizarre attacker.  Oh, I’m sure it’s happened -I think there was a big news story a couple of years ago how illegal alien chicken factory workers were torturing the chickens- but those are psychopaths and should be in jail, and it’s certainly not the norm.

So, psycopathic morons hurt animals, and people like you and me find out about them, kick their ass, and they go to jail.  I just don’t think this is institutionalized behavior for the emu oil industry -just a few bad people that hopefully are behind bars.

Hopefully they’ll find a way to replicate the oil soon anyway and this will be a moot point because the stuff is great!

-O.M.G.

 


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dZine

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# 17 ]

December 07, 2011, 06:59 AM

Forgot to reply to this one!
Thanks again OMG for your reply.

Also interesting to read what you said to Lapwing..you are absolutely right on this one. It might be one of the biggest problems on the internet…and it might be the reason why there is so much bull on the web..

Anyhow, keep up the good work:D! It is a pity that some people ‘assault’ you like this.

 

 

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OverMachoGrande

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December 07, 2011, 01:57 PM

Hey, dZine!

I’m glad you responded to that! lol…  Nobody was saying anything, and that was seriously one of the most bizarre things that has ever happened to me. I’m poor as shit (especially last year) and at least half of what I do would be considered “volunteer” work anyway, and the only saving grace of this is that I have freedom, no longer have to wear a suit and tie, or go to an office -and someone confronts me like I’m a Wall Street tycoon or work for Halliburton!  ....AFTER I had sent/received 33 or something emails with them that were LONG and took a considerable amount of my time.

That’s the problem with the mentally ill people.  They usually lash out at the ones close to them -and I suppose that was me.

Anyway, that’s over, and I’m glad I never have to deal with that person again.

-O.M.G.


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dZine

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# 19 ]

December 08, 2011, 03:08 PM

Well, it is a shame things like this happen, but luckily you are smart enough to shake it off smile.
Just keep up the good work!

 

IGNORE

 
   
 








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