Am I lasering wrong?

   
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Optimus Prime

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March 07, 2012, 10:29 PM

I have an extremely painful scalp.  I thought that lasering was supposed to make your scalp feel better.  However, I haven’t noticed any improvement in my scalp pain condition yet.  I’ve been lasering for about a month and half.  I have a 100-diode contraption.  I laser 3X per week, 3 zones, 20 minutes each zone.  I laser about a half hour after showering.  My contraption is just 100 diodes in a gutter guard.  I literally hold the gutter guard with my hands - I don’t have a helmet/hat/visor/etc.  I try (I think fairly successfully) to keep the diodes about 2cm above my head.

I continue to shed pretty nastily.  I strongly think that the shedding is due to the painful scalp.  I’m hoping that if I stop the scalp pain, then the shedding will stop, too, and hopefully the hair that I’ve shed will come back.  I’ve lost a ton of hair in the past 3 months or so, going from having my hair loss be hardly noticeable to having noticeable bald patches now.  My scalp has been painful the whole time.

I’m guessing that I must be doing something wrong with the lasering.  Can anyone think of anything, given the information I gave above?

 

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NDW

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# 1 ]

March 07, 2012, 11:42 PM

I can’t give you a meaningful response, but for someone who can, you should probably be a little more clear.
Are you saying that lasering has caused the painful scalp? Or that lasering has simply failed to stop your scalp from hurting? Is your scalp only painful while you’re lasering?

 

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Optimus Prime

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# 2 ]

March 08, 2012, 12:09 AM

Hi NDW,

Sorry for the confusion.  I’m not saying at all that lasering has caused my sore scalp.  I’m saying that it hasn’t helped relieve the soreness of my scalp.  I believe strongly in laser therapy, from all the good responses that people have had, but I don’t think I can benefit from it (or any treatment) until I relieve my scalp soreness.  I was hoping that the lasering could itself help relieve the soreness, but so far no luck.

I’d previously thought that my sore scalp was due to pimples forming on it, but I don’t really see any scalp pimples these days.  I don’t have any dandruff flakes, either.  I do, however, notice large “sebum plug”-type things coming out of my scalp in several places.  And perhaps not coincidentally, these sebum plug things are found mostly in the places where my scalp hurts the most, and where most of my hair loss is.  Oftentimes a hair will fall out with one of these large sebum plugs still attached.  I’m wondering if I do in fact have some sort of follicle blockage or perhaps an infection.  If anyone has any experience with these sebum plug things, I’d love to hear what you have to say about them.

Whatever, the cause of my scalp soreness, I was hoping that the lasering would help to alleviate it.  Since it hasn’t helped so far, I was wondering if perhaps I was doing it incorrectly.

Cheers.

 

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J87

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# 3 ]

March 08, 2012, 02:10 AM

All I can say is LLLT isn’t a cure-all treatment. There could be many factors causing your scalp condition. It took me years of trial/error to get my scalp inflammation under control. Check out the immortal hair forum, use the search function and learn as much as possible, start tackling your condition from multiple angles.

Things I would recommend for the topical route:
-Swap out whatever shampoo you use for a natural one, the less chemicals the better.
-Start killing whatever is living in your head (bacteria/fungus/biofilms), straight up grapefruitseed extract works great for this, rub in your scalp for a few minutes before showering. Other things: vinegar, iodine, tea tree oil, essential oils, natural antidandruff shampoo, etc.
-About 1/4th tsp of l-lysine in 2oz of water with about 5 drops of iodine work great for inflammation
-Start moisturizing your head -coconut oil, aloe vera gel, shear butter. Experiment, start mixing stuff together.
-Rejuvaplex, haven’t had scalp itching since using this daily

Attacking your condition internally:
Do all of these plans:
http://healthyfixx.com/getting-started
http://healthyfixx.com/12/fixx-your-diet-fixx-your-hair-loss

After that, look into IH’s supplements.

 

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 08, 2012, 09:52 AM

Thanks, J87.  That’s a lot of useful information.  I already use a natural shampoo, although I do use a keto shampoo 2-3X per week.  I’ll definitely try out the things you recommended.  I think that once I get this inflammation under control, I’ll be doing much better.

 

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OverMachoGrande

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# 5 ]

March 08, 2012, 10:42 AM

Hey, Optimus Prime!

In my new laser usage protocols, I mention using COCONUT OIL afterwards like J87 said.  Man, that stuff is SWEET on the scalp.  It really makes your scalp feel great.  You should try that definitely!

One other thing… make sure you aren’t holding the laser device too far away.  When the lens caps are removed, if you hold it just a little bit too far away the laser energy radically drops off.

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 08, 2012, 01:22 PM

Thanks for the reply, O.M.G.  May I say that your website has helped keep my spirits up over the past few months.  I really do need to get off my butt and build a helmet!  My elbows are getting sore, after all wink.

I’ll definitely try the coco oil.  I’ll get some for tonight.  I just got some of the grapefruit seed extract that J87 mentioned.  I’ve heard a lot of good things about that stuff, too, and I’m happy to try it.

With all the useful info here, I’ll be better soon enough!  Thanks, guys!!!

 

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J87

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March 08, 2012, 09:00 PM

Another thing I prefer to keto shampoo (has a lot of chemicals in it), they sell keto tablets called “fish fungus” for your aquarium. You can crush them up in some aloe or coconut oil and apply that instead.

 

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Lothar97

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March 08, 2012, 10:07 PM

I have a device with more than 100 diodes that I move every 20 minutes, approx.  I glued the hair bristles into it.  It really isn’t that heavy to me at least without the band to support it so I just sit it on my head, at least for the first two zones.  You might try this to get the correct distance for the lasers.  I don’t think the weight is any issue but you might want to check with OMG.

Also, I am on… I think only my fourth day with Ecklonia Cava and my reduction in shedding is quite dramatic.  I believe it works on inflammation, and scalp pain can be caused by inflammation so you might consider trying that.

Did you notice when the pain started?  After starting any particular product, more specifically?  Sometimes a product that works for everyone else just wont agree with you.  I am somewhere around 7 months of lllt give or take a bit and I just tried polysorbate for the first time a month or so ago and either it, the alcohol, or olive oil gave me horrible scalp itch that felt like inflammation.  So I dropped that and am using emu/niacin now.

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 08, 2012, 10:22 PM

J87, that’s an interesting thought.  I’ll have to give that a shot at some point.

Lothar97, I can’t think of any particular thing that set off the scalp pain.  I suspect that I’ve just irritated it a lot during the course of the past few months somehow.  Perhaps I’m shampooing too much - I shampoo twice per shower so maybe I should cut it to once.  I also notice that some shampoos irritate me much more than others.  I think that the ideas that J87 and OMG gave me about using coco oil and aloe vera gel will help.  Also, I’ll take your idea about mounting hair bristles, or something that gives me good spacing, onto my laser device.  I really want to make sure I’m doing the lasering right.

Cheers.

 

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Lothar97

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March 08, 2012, 10:34 PM

You might also try the emu oil/niacin before you laser (the coconut comes after you laser).  The emu oil seems moisturizing and I believe it helps the coconut oil absorb more or something.  I bought some coconut oil but I haven’t tried it yet.  I am trying not to make too many changes at once so that I can tell what is doing what, and causing what side effects.  Coconut oil is a dht inhibitor when eaten so I am nervous about putting it on my head (I am EXTREMELY sensitive to dht inhibitors, including topical ones.  Using keto shampoo once will give me side effects.) 

If anything in your products is causing the pain (versus inflammation from dht or whatever) I would guess the keto as it can be very harsh for some people.

 

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tanner84

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March 09, 2012, 12:08 AM

I just bought the shampoo/conditioner for hair loss from “Just Natural” - everything is organic… no preservatives of any kind. Optimus and Lothar - y’all should check them out.

Lothar - since you are sensitive to many products, it’s probably because you are sensitive not to actual DHT inhibitors in general, but the chemical enantiomer or form of the compound/chemical in the product you are using, right? Just Natural has a hair loss section of products. Like I said - check ‘em out.

Optimus - maybe you should email the people at Just Natural to see if they can help you. They seem to know what they are talking about when it comes to scalp conditions. As aforementioned, it seems like you don’t really know the actual source of your problem. However, my natural instinct says that the pain is coming from excess irritation/inflammation. Also the extreme shedding/pain could be from overstimulation from the LLLT. I hope you find something that works for you!

http://www.justnaturalskincare.com/index.html

 

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J87

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# 12 ]

March 09, 2012, 01:37 AM

BTW make sure you get a clear, natrual aloe vera and not that green Banana Boat crap that contains alcohol and other chemical irritants.

 

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Lothar97

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March 09, 2012, 02:03 AM

J87, what effects have you noticed from aloe?  Thanks!

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 09, 2012, 01:01 PM

Lothar - I have bottle of emu oil at home so I’ll give it a shot as a pre-laser treatment.  Where do I get the niacin?  I’m not sure the keto is what’s causing my irritation.  I only began using it about a month ago, and I’ve been feeling irritated for a lot longer than that.

Tanner - I’ll take your suggestion and e-mail the Just Natural folks.  I agree that the pain is coming from irritation/inflammation.  I don’t think the pain is caused by the lasering.  I’ve only been doing the lasering for 1.5 months, and I’ve been having the pain for over 3 months.

J87 - Thanks for the clarification on the Aloe Vera gel!  I was actually wondering last night “how do I get that gooey crap (Banana Boat) on my scalp?”.

 

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tanner84

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March 09, 2012, 05:43 PM

Optimus - Great! let us know what they say!

I’m sitting here at the computer with niacin on my head, then I’ll add a little emu, and bingo: laser time. The flush of blood feels great from the niacin. Go to http://purebulk.com/ for the niacin. It’s cheap and will last a while. I used two teaspoons in a little spray bottle. The niacin should be water soluble and the “flushing” kind. So in a little water, the solution is white, and there are no chunks that have precipitated out of it. However, you will have to shake it up vigorously prior to use. The niacin is denser and will start to separate within a minute or so.

After the laser I’ll put either coconut oil or the bald spot treatment from Just Naturals (it has aloe vera in it among some other good hair growth oils).

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 10, 2012, 03:22 AM

Tanner,

Alice at Just Natural e-mailed me back saying:

“Thank you for your email. I would suggest you use the Dry Scalp Treatment along with the Hair Loss Shampoo and the Hair Loss Conditioner.”

I’ll get the niacin, too.  I’m really impressed and pleased with the level of knowledge on this forum!

 

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tanner84

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March 14, 2012, 12:23 AM

You’ll have to let us know if those products help you. I love my Just Naturals products. I think when I’m done with my RegenePure and Revivogen shampoo/conditioner, I’m just going to use the JN stuff.

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 14, 2012, 12:49 AM

Tanner,

I haven’t bought the Just Natural stuff yet.  Do you have any experience with it, and does it work for you?  I was actually thinking of trying RegenePure, but it seems like you like Just Natural products better.  Can you explain why you prefer them?  Do Just Natural products contain keto?

I also figured out that the cause of my scalp pain really is related to the way I shampoo.  I’ve shampooed “less vigorously” recently, and boy, the scalp pain went down to almost zero.  However, this allowed a lot of sebum to creep back onto my scalp and some dandruff.  I’m therefore really looking for a good shampoo and if you think Just Natural is a good way to go, I’m interested.  My wife will probably kick my arse for buying yet another shampoo, though.

 

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tanner84

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March 14, 2012, 12:31 PM

I use the men’s hair loss treatment, apple cider vinegar rinse, hair loss conditioner, hair loss shampoo, and bald spot treatment. I’ve only been using them for a week, but I really think they are great products. Just look at the ingredients… all natural, organic, and so unique. For example, who knew that pumpkin seed extract was a DHT blocker. Pretty cool I think.

RegenePure still has chemicals in it, but JN does not have the keto compound. So if you are insistent on that, I don’t think it’s bad to use RegenePure a few times a week. I just like the idea of being chemical free. However, you can’t be completely away from chemicals in our world. They are everywhere… but you can make some choices that reduce the amount of crap we are exposed to.

Why don’t you just order the apple cider vinegar rinse from JN. It should take care of excess sebum and dandruff naturally. Look it up an google ACV and hair and you’ll learn that it’s great. If you don’t want to order from JN, make your own ACV wash. Keep it cheap smile Then when you run out of what you currently are using, order the good stuff.

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 14, 2012, 08:47 PM

Tanner,

I have Bragg’s ACV at home.  I’ve used it before and it worked well.  I think I’ll start using it again.  I agree that going natural is a great thing to do, however I’m a bit leery about buying any more products.  I already about 10 different shampoos in my showers, including some really expensive ones.  I’ll just stick to what I have for now.  I’ll definitely consider the Just Natural brands in the future, though.

 

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Nidhogge

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March 16, 2012, 02:16 PM

It’s a bit too early to say, but you may have some over-stimulation with your lasers due to the long treatment time.  We typically recommend 15-20 minutes for every area of your scalp.  Additionally, by holding it above the head, it’s important to have the correct distance the whole time and that’d be very difficult with just holding your hand over for 30 minutes!

We actually have an organic shampoo available that may help you out, and I have the Apple Cider Vinegar rinse from JustNatural.com as well; great stuff!  Here is a link to the shampoo:

Information:

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t4871-decalcify-and-ortho-organic-shampoo-conditioner-officially-released#46093

Order Information:

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t4310-immortal-hair-supplement-line-and-rejuveplex-topical-now-available-order-information-here

Additionally, RejuvePlex may help you as well; have received a LOT of good feedback on that so far…

Information: 

http://immortalhair.forumandco.com/t6766-rejuveplex-hair-loss-and-anti-aging-serum-information

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 17, 2012, 05:24 PM

Hi Nid,

Thanks for the response.  I’ve got a lot of respect for the work that you, OMG, Joe Zix, and Immortalhair do.

I’ve noticed a few things since I started this post -

1) Most of my scalp pain was due to the way I shampooed.  I shampooed twice per shower.  I cut it down to once per shower and the scalp pain is nearly vanished.  I still notice, however, that I get build-up sebum near my crown area.  Strangely I don’t seem to get much sebum build-up any place else.  Even more strangely, most of this sebum is actually on the back of my head, where MPB doesn’t occur.  I’m thinking I may still be shampooing too vigorously and thereby irritating my scalp.

2) I probably was indeed lasering wrong.  Like you said - it’s hard to hold your hands over your head for a long time.  My brother-in-law and I are going to work together on building a helmet.  He’s concerned about his hair loss, too.  I started him on Zix a few days ago.

3) This is probably my most important realization - Joe Zix pointed out to me that I’ve been suffering from what he calls SAAB (stress-accelerated androgenetic balding).  No treatment will work for me or anyone else with this issue until SAAB is addressed and stopped.  Just realizing that I had it was a big revelation.  I think I’m on the mend.

That said, your shampoo looks amazing.  As I pointed out to Tanner, I’m nearly drowning in shampoos right now.  I’ve bought so many of them.  I think the next one I buy will be yours, once I finish up with my current favorite - Avalon Organics biotin b-complex thickening shampoo.  That stuff makes my scalp feel nice and warm after using it.  I like it a lot.

I’m strongly considering Rejuveplex, too.  The thing that’s stopped me from getting it already is that some people mention it makes your hair somewhat difficult to groom, and that they apply it at night and wash out in the morning.  I shower at night.  My schedule doesn’t allow me to shower in the morning.  If you think I’ve gotten it all wrong, please let me know.

Cheers,
Optimus

 

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Optimus Prime

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March 17, 2012, 05:27 PM

Above, I meant “once I started this thread”, not “once I started this post”.  I didn’t come to all those realizations while writing the above post.  LOL.

 

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curls

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April 04, 2012, 02:29 AM

Hi Optimus Prime, I’ve had my share of scalp pains, itching and flaking too. I’m glad to say no structural shedding though. That came in waves and it didn’t result in bald patches. All the symptoms stopped about 1,5 months after I started taking Argentyn 23 (colo├»dal silver). I took it 4 times a day, each time a spoonfull. This works against inflammation troughout the whole body. It’s really the best. Now I take a maintenance dose of a spoonfull twice a day. The hair didn’t come back from it, but it doesn’t fall out anymore and the pain, intching and flaking stopped and that was a relieve. Apart from that I’ve stopped using the regular shampoos and only use biological shampoos and hair contitioning especially with teatree in it feels great for the scalp. To stimulate hairgrow I go to an acupuncturist. He gives me herbs to strengten Liver. It does help, I see small hairs coming back at the edge of my hair. But it are thinner hair as I normally have. I hope the LLLT helps me for that. I’ve started using it two weeks ago.

Bey, Curls

 

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Optimus Prime

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April 04, 2012, 11:05 AM

Thanks for the suggestion, Curls.  I really need to stop my inflammation.  Nothing’s worked so far.  I’ve tried so many things that my head’s starting to spin.  Perhaps I’ll try the colloidal silver, too.  I really think there’s something going on with my body other than just regular MPB.  The constant pain and gurgling in my stomach makes me think that there really is something wrong.  The stomach problems and the hair shed actually began at the same time, too.  Unfortunately I can’t figure out how to fix my stomach, and the doctors can’t seem to, either.  I’m trying to remain positive, though.  A bad attitude can only make things worse.  I need to fix my stomach first, whether it’s related to the hair shed or not.  Hopefully once my stomach’s OK, the hair shed will stop, too.  If not, then at least I’ve fixed one problem and can concentrate on the other.

 

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