Before and after pics from a laserstudio
 Member Total Posts: 70 Member Since: |
February 26, 2010, 05:24 PM http://www.swedishhairlasercenter.se/fore_efter.html Had a look at this clinics pictures and some are truly amazing and proof of what laser can do for hair growth. For me this shows that it is possible to fight hairloss withouht finasteride. |
 Editor Total Posts: 844 Member Since: |
[ # 1 ] February 26, 2010, 06:08 PM See, this is the problem with people in the hair loss industry and people talking about their diodes… either they don’t know what they are talking about, or they are purposely manipulating people! lol… Well, I love being able to turn this into a teaching moment for the hair loss forum world! lol… THE FACT IS… 650nm diodes are really ~657/658nm! So, they should more appropriately be called 660nm, but for some reason the industry calls them 650. So, I’m 99% sure that the Swedish laser clinic is using the ole faithful “MY LASER DIODES ARE MAGIC DIODES AND THEREFORE BETTER THAN YOURS” trick -when they are exactly the same! We’ve had the diodes independently tested, and everytime, they come up just about like this:  ...And we’ve compared that to both generic, run-of-the-mill 650 diodes and really expensive Steiner & Martin diodes, and guess what? It’s the same! From what I’ve seen, pretty much every 650 diode is actually 660, so anyone saying that “Our diodes are superior to 650nm diodes” are trying to create a competitive advantage that doesn’t exist! So, I consider that more of the hair loss industry BS! Good pictures, though! lol… I just wish people were a little more ethical about their diodes. -O.M.G. |
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Editor Total Posts: 844 Member Since: |
[ # 2 ] February 26, 2010, 06:29 PM By the way, I have a lot of laser clinic pictures that I can post. I can add those pictures that you linked to, also. Since there aren’t going to be any hostile types on this site that instantly dismiss before/after pictures as fakes, it’d be a great thing to have all of those posted in one spot! It’s funny that none of the people are using propecia on the Swedish site… seriously, I’m not sure if I regularly speak to ANYONE that uses it anymore, and hardly any hair loss veterans use it -and most of the ones that do want to get off of it. So, there you go! Always food for thought. |
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Member Total Posts: 70 Member Since: |
[ # 3 ] February 27, 2010, 03:02 AM According to the site, when laser diodes are made in a large quanitity the actual nanometer that the diodes produce will varie from 2-3 and up to 7-8 nanometer per diode. Which means that some of the 650 nm diodes will be above, but some will also be below. And because 650 nm is the least that is required to reach some sort of stimulation for hair growth - then they say that they’re diodes are superior because even if they do varie slightly, none of their diodes are below 650 nm. They say that unbiased studies have confirmed that 655 nm seems to be the ultimate diodes. I think propecia is still one of the most widely used hairloss treatments. One has to take into account that all hairloss sufferers do not visit online forums, and the ones that do will probably read more horror stories about finasteride side effects - hence putting them off of using it. |
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[ # 4 ] February 27, 2010, 11:23 AM I think the real test would be lasers only. Saw Palmetto I think blocks about half or less of the DHT that Propecia does, so your still inhibiting 5-ar to an extent(I used it when I got off Propecia and maintained). And if you add in a growth stimiulator like Minoxidil, you can’t tell what’s doing what. You can pretty much spot the laser sheen(darker, a little thicker shinier shaft) But to see regrowth and thickening from just lasers is the key. |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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Member Total Posts: 70 Member Since: |
[ # 5 ] February 27, 2010, 04:15 PM Dm5: One of the owners of that laser studio is a frequent visitor at a swedish hairloss forum. He is a firm believer that laser alone has its limits - he advocates using is as part of a package. And according to him; most of the people that come to them have used minoxidil for years without any visible results, but when they combine it with laser treatment, things start happening. By the way, how long had you been on propecia when you switched to saw palmetto? Did you manage to replace propecia with saw palmetto without any shedding? And what was the dose of SP that you took? |
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Editor Total Posts: 844 Member Since: |
[ # 6 ] February 27, 2010, 05:27 PM FYI… Joe the Zix Guy tested a thousand of these diodes, and there was essentially NO VARIATION in the wavelength. They were all right at 657nm pretty much every time, and I don’t think there was ever a variation of over one point either way with any of them -certainly not seven. So again, I don’t really know what this guy is talking about, and it sounds to me like he’s still trying to create some competitive advantage that, once again, just isn’t there. With the way lasers function, you have electricity and gas ions -and when the inert, noble gas is the same inert, noble gas as the other diodes, you’re going to get pretty much the same results. It’s not like me making my laser helmets -one or two could be slightly bigger because of how I cut the templates that day, or one batch of wires could be crazier because I didn’t drink enough coffee before I started- this is “pretty much” the same thing over and over. It would take different elements to get different wavelengths. Oh, and DM5… there are VAST amounts of “laser only” pics. I’ve posted them on other sites before, and I’ll have to do that here at some point -probably in the wiki, though, because the problem with forum threads (the same problem why you haven’t already seen them) is that as soon as they are off the main page, no one sees them anymore. Also, Dr. Maricle (former CEO of Sunetics) is going to be a featured contributor of this site, and one of the first articles I want him to write is “Dispelling the erroneous notion in forums that laser-only results don’t exist -actually the evidence is overwhelming” or something like that -I’ll have to think about the title. He’s going to talk about the Sunetics laser clinic surveys, studies, and results (including the one with the LDS 100 that I have on my OMG site that is laser only). There is more laser-only evidence in existence than any other evidence put forth since propecia, yet for some reason that info doesn’t stay prevalent in forums. Insert your own conspiracy here! lol… Worthy of mention also -and maybe other laser veterans will pipe in here- I’ve still seen only NEGATIVE results with minox usage and LLLT. Only a very small percentage of people use minox with the helmets now -most that did quit, and most that quit had better results when they did quit. I have seen NOTHING that shows a synergistic effect with the two -it’s the exact opposite from what I’ve seen. Laser clinics use minox for ONE REASON and one reason only -the “money back guarantee”! Whether you have a great experience with minox or a horrible experience with minox… the fact is that it is more than likely TECHNICALLY growing more hair. It may be crappy little hair wisps that will never do much of anything (and the overall quality of your hair may suffer), but it’s still provable via microscope that yeah… you technically have more hair. So, it’s a business decision -and I know this for a fact. None of what I said is speculation -I’ve been told this by clinic owners. -O.M.G. |
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Member Total Posts: 191 Member Since: |
[ # 7 ] February 27, 2010, 05:40 PM Gubter87—- I was on Propecia for 4 years. I got off and took Saw Palmetto Extract**(recomended dose) 320mg for like 6 months and then switched to Nettle Root and Pygeum plus a lot of Flax supplementation. I maintained for a good year and then I started taking a whole slew of supplements and started to lose ground. OMG—That is great news! Definitely look forward to seeing laser-only results other than from the Laser Comb site. Over on HLF most people had problems with minox and lasers. I quit minox last July and went from NW2-3+ and still in decline/shed. I got on lasers(460 diode LM2) about 3 months ago. Seen some thickening and darkening amidst the loss but really hoping to see somer loss slow down and possible regrowth within the year. |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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Editor Total Posts: 844 Member Since: |
[ # 8 ] February 27, 2010, 05:57 PM Yeah, HLF quickly became the home for about five people that used minox and lasers and were in denial about how it was causing major problems for them! Man, those people were absolute JERKS about it, too. That’s why all of us left -especially because it was clear that some of it wasn’t legitimate. I talk to hundreds of people regularly that refuse to post in forums -and it’s all because of things like that! They see forum jerks and say “You’d have to be crazy to want to get involved in that!”. So yes, a long time ago, I did realize that indeed *I* must be crazy, too, to be a part of this. You probably are, too! lol… I think by definition, you have to be crazy to post in those negative places! That’s why there is a zero tolerance on negative behavior here, though, because we’re going to try to attract a completely different user base -well, we will when we actually get this place running. Anyway, glad you are seeing some thickening/darkening already! You should think about a transplant. It’s such a great way to alleviate focusing on the year long slide you are going through! I think just the fact that you will no longer regularly check the mirror is worth it’s weight in gold. |
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Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com! The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss! It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY… |
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Member Total Posts: 191 Member Since: |
[ # 9 ] February 27, 2010, 06:08 PM OMG: Actually, I am getting about 3000 grafts from Dr. Jerry Cooley as soon as they can squeeze me in April sometime(was March 22nd but was an error). You couldn’t be more right taking the focus off of now. The reason is that no matter what you use for regrowth….........your chances of recreating a decent hairline are slim. That is my sitiation, I can’t use minox or propecia(nor does it make sense in lieu of this better way) anymore for health reasons and its time to stop trying to regrow 2 hairs with a brutal chemical regimen and wasted time. I had been thinking about a transplant for years and had my eye on Cooley because I live about 2 hours from Charlotte. I know I come off as a poster boy for all this but for me all this stuff made sense. HT for the front, and supplements and lasers to maintain/thicken regrow the top/back. |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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Member Total Posts: 191 Member Since: |
[ # 10 ] February 27, 2010, 06:38 PM OMG: My questions in regards to a Tranplant from you(since your a Veteran) would be how long after you had it done till the redness went down, you were able to take off the baseball cap? And how to use the Laser Helmet after surgery. And did you blog your experience? |
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“A door within the fire creaks, suddenly flies open and a girl is standing there. Eyes alight with glowing hair all that fancy paints as fair, she takes her fan and throws it in the Lion’s Den.”
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 Member Total Posts: 81 Member Since: |
[ # 11 ] February 28, 2010, 03:35 AM Im just gonna hop onto a popular thread and slip in a quick question about lasering…Should I continue with it even if i begin to see more hair in the shower? |
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Sure, shit happens...but so does good shit! |
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Member Total Posts: 70 Member Since: |
[ # 12 ] February 28, 2010, 04:25 AM This whole “minox and lasers cancel each other out” is something that I’m not too sure about. From what I know it is only anecdotal and was started by a few users on online forums. |
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Member Total Posts: 70 Member Since: |
[ # 13 ] February 28, 2010, 04:34 AM OMG; So the study on your site showing great laser results was done by sunetics? I mean I have seen lots of studies by different companies, enforcing their own products. According to them and the studies their products are the end to hairloss worries. Naturally.. this has not been the case. |
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 14 ] May 03, 2010, 02:51 PM Guys, I have been using the 2% minoxidil for women for 10+ years now, with little to no improvement and have continued to have hair thinning. I remember when I started the regime it seemed to help but I was using the 5% minoxidil and that was looking like it might grow some hairs. But over time I had a baby and stopped using altogether for 2 yrs, later given that there was no motivation to continue use I’ve been lazy with usage but in general mionxidil has not helped me personally. I am planning on getting a helmet from OMG soon, but wondering if I should use MInoxidil during the process or not. Looking at some of your comments I am confused. I was earlier planning on using the Mino + minomuck, but now am wondering if I can risk quitting and moving to superzixII… thoughts anyone? I will definitely report my decisions and progress if any when the time comes. |
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Editor Total Posts: 844 Member Since: |
[ # 15 ] May 03, 2010, 05:58 PM
I’m not sure why you are cutting some laser clinics slack on what they say about their treatments but aren’t affording the same thing to the manufacturers. Lol… I’ve heard A LOT of bogus claims by laser clinics, but the only bogus laser manufacturer info I hear is from the higher power diode device manufacturers and dinky laser comb manufacturers –not the professional machine makers. Anyway, I know you aren’t intentionally doing that, but it just seems like that! I hate talking about minox, but you’re draggin’ me into again. Lol… As far as what I say about minox, I have adamantly stated that I only go off of what I see, and I make that ***really clear*** when I talk about this stuff. There is a clear lack of results from people that use both LLLT and minox IN THE FORUMS. We’ve all witnessed it, and I feel that the correlation is real. I should also mention, by the way, that I sent and received 20,000 emails last year from people that AREN’T in hair loss forums, and they pretty much say the same thing as the people in forums –so I do have a bit more evidence to go off of here, and it’s evidence that pretty much only I’m privy to because I don’t know any other individuals that have that much contact with the hair loss world like that. So, that’s obviously helped to shape my opinion on things –and frankly has motivated me to do this site. There is a definitely lack of REAL, helpful information out there. Good lord. Try to follow what I’m saying here (and I have no clue what to advise to people in regards to getting off of it or restarting it [I mean you here, Sonal], because you could be setting yourself up for a real LONG TERM disaster), and yes, I’m going to ramble around here but it’s the only way I know how to put down words with what I’m feeling about this. Who are the people that have used both minox and lasers? These people that go to laser clinics that never ever post in forums so we don’t know who the hell they are, and VETERANS. I have no way of hearing from those people that go to laser clinics, so my experience is with veterans - and by definition, you’re a veteran when you DON’T have a lot of success previously. [Had propecia and minox worked for me, I would have never wired my first diode. ] So, I can assess what the veterans say because I can READ IT, but I’m supposed to take the word of laser clinic owners about his experiences –and those two aren’t giving me the same results. So, I’m already inclined to believe what I’m seeing over his word. Let’s keep going… Well, minox doesn’t work forever, and it’s disastrous for some when it stops working -sheds, etc., and you will commonly hear “I would have been better off if I never used it” in the forums. This is not disputable, you hear it all the time, and thank GOD there are no minox shills here to start a fight about that. Frankly, most of us (including me) that looked into minox -but still decided to try it- knew that we’d have to “face up” to our choice down the road, even with the best case scenario. We chose to take the risk and hope that something would bail us out before we had to deal with it. That was *exactly* my thought process from as far back as the late 90’s. I absolutely knew my hair would become reliant on it, I absolutely knew that even if I had great success with it, it wouldn’t last for long, and I absolutely knew that at some point, I was going to have to deal with a MASSIVE shed. I used it anyway, and when I talk one-on-one with people, they usually fess up to the same thing. …And most of us KEPT using it even after we realized that it was making our hair look like shit. SO… when are veterans inclined to try LLLT?? When minox is no longer working for them, and they are starting to deal with the consequences. So, like I said, I’m absolutely forthright with saying that what *I* see with minox probably isn’t typical. The forums probably aren’t typical of the rest of the balding population -we have tough cases. …and most people that I know in the forums DO NOT use minox -for one main reason, too… they tried it (sometimes for years) and it just doesn’t damn work or it did and it stopped working, and they consequently had a bad time with it. So, there is a very good chance that most of the people that use both are on the tail end of their minox experience anyway. I’m just trying to state here why I think like I do. Yeah, people have results with minox –but when you filter out the shills and the people that haven’t been using it for long (over the one year point when the initial results start fading), you get a completely different, more accurate picture. Minox technically DOES INCREASE HAIR COUNT –but as most honest people will tell you, there’s much more to the picture, and it often causes people’s overall hair condition to worsen. So, “Laser Clinics” are more accurately called “Hair Loss Clinics” -you probably won’t find a clinic that STRICTLY uses lasers- and I absolutely stand by what I said about the money back guarantee aspect of why they use minox. We’ve heard that first hand from owners (although I can’t pull that up -I don’t know where that was). But, MAYBE if you *start* using both at the same time you’d show astounding results –that’s fantastic, and NOBODY is saying to use LLLT alone, not clinics, not me, not anyone here. You’re probably stupid not to use something else –it’s your HAIR for god sakes. With minox, though, even if what the laser clinic guy in Sweden is saying is 100% fact, I have no clue what would happen in the future, though, and like I’ve been upfront about… I don’t hear many long term success stories with minox –and I’m telling you, a lot of those success stories are BOGUS and I’ve proven that. Because of that, it’s really difficult for me to be anything but a minox antagonist. I didn’t want this role, lol… but it landed in my lap. I guess that’s about it. All of my veteran experience with minox points in one direction… you’d probably be better off staying away from it. I do often say to newbies that they should both try minox and propecia right off the bat so they will KNOW if they work or not from them –so I am a little bit on both sides of the issue there. I realize that. If that bugs you, go complain somewhere else! Lol… Now, if someone were to challenge me on ANY ASPECT of what I just said in all of that, then I’m simply going to accuse them of not listening to what others have been saying for 10 years. I’ve covered my bases here like I always do, and what I’m saying is real. If you or someone you know has great long term success with minox, then you should consider yourself or that person lucky, because that just isn’t typical! I think it speaks for itself that I don’t know one person that I’m in regular communication with that actually still uses minox –but most people I know HAVE used it, and they aren’t anymore. One small point, by the way… the more and more successful products come out that do come out, the TOUGHER the cases are going to be because the only people that will be left are people that don’t have success with anything (and brand new people and the people that help others, of course). So, the forums will probably continue to look less and less like the rest of the population over time -provided there are more successful treatments coming out (which there really hasn’t been much of). Alright, that’s enough. I HATE speaking about this topic, and I think I’m “retired” from saying one more word about lasers and minox together –other than from what I’ve seen, it’s not a pretty picture. Also, just to reiterate, someone probably would be limiting themselves if they weren’t using other things with laser therapy, and I don’t know anyone that is saying “only use lasers”. I think most people probably should be using what I call “non-competing” treatments –which are treatments that won’t physically interfere with each other (lllt, topicals (not more than one at a time), supplements. I should have been taking supplements for the past five years, but I haven’t been –so I’m probably short changing MYSELF.
PS- Sonal, hopefully I’ve helped you make a decision! lol… I don’t really know what to advise you about that, but I am a big proponent of ZIX -mainly because it didn’t HURT MY HAIR like minox did. I don’t think 5% is advised for women at all, though, is it?? |
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Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com! The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss! It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY… |
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Editor Total Posts: 844 Member Since: |
[ # 16 ] May 03, 2010, 06:02 PM You know what, if you don’t want to read that long post, here is the summary… Minox is “old and busted”. I’m actually surprised that it’s even still talked about, and I’m done talking about it because I don’t feel that it’s proved to be a good weapon in the anti-hair loss arsenal. If there is some sort of “synergy” with minox and LLLT, I have seen ZERO EVIDENCE of this, and what I’ve seen points me in the other direction. I have no problem being wrong about that, I’d be the first one to admit it, and the main underlying factor here with all of this is that lasers work and we’re on the same side of the discussion. I’m all for finding ways to make them WORK BETTER, so I don’t take these finer points personally, and I’d EMBRACE being wrong on this because it would mean tons of people are getting fantastic results. I don’t like talking about this because there is ALWAYS someone that’s going to argue with me about it no matter what I’ve seen, and somebody, somewhere always ends up accusing me of having motives against minox! Ha ha ha! There. |
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Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com! The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss! It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY… |
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New Member Total Posts: 13 Member Since: |
[ # 17 ] May 03, 2010, 11:50 PM Thanks OMG, yes that does help actually. I would junk Minox in a heartbeat, but there is some shed even with the 2%, so there’s a bit of a risk for my locks. Btw I read about the superzix formula and would love to try it and even use it to replace mino once I start the laser therapy, but I am curious about the Polysorbate 80 component. I have read the article about the benefits of Polysorbate 80 to hair regrowth, sounds great. But perhaps you have all had a discussion about this someplace but I have to ask, have you heard that it (Polysorbate 80) can cause infertility? If so I would imagine that would be a problem for a lot of users not past the baby making stage… damned if you do and damned if you dont :( |
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by Kazbar on 05/16/12, 8:21pm
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SuperZix II - A Homemade Topical That Can Compete with… by marb on 04/27/12, 4:15am
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SuperZix II - A Homemade Topical That Can Compete with… by The Zix Creator on 04/27/12, 2:39am
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SuperZix II - A Homemade Topical That Can Compete with… by marb on 04/27/12, 2:15am
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Pulsing Lasers with the Spectralight PulseDrive -Intro… by what_Baldness on 04/13/12, 7:20am
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by Nidhogge on 01/11/12, 8:57pm
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by dZine on 01/03/12, 5:53pm
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by Immortal Hair on 12/12/11, 5:23pm
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The RejuvePlex anti-aging / hair loss topical is finally… by OverMachoGrande on 12/12/11, 4:38pm
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Estrogen, Aromatase & Insulin by Gregsmom48 on 12/01/11, 8:45am
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