Possible new cure for baldness.

   
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The Zix Creator

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# 1 ]

April 07, 2012, 08:13 PM

They were interesting articles. I am always on the look out for anything that might buck the “30 month window” as well. The problem is a pragmatic one. I would guess they are 15 years away from a commercial product even if the idea works….and that is a big if. Furthermore from past experience nothing ever turns out to work as well as the original data suggests.

Thanks for the links. That was interesting.

 

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Lapwing

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# 2 ]

April 07, 2012, 09:04 PM

The natural way is to fight inflammation.  A good anti-inflammatory diet.  Quercetin should help.  I am eating more red onions because of this new PDG2 link to MPB.  Hey it may be a good idea after all to rub onions on your scalp.  It may really reduce PDG2 in your scalp.  I haven’t tried it yet, but I might.  Besides eating more red onions I just started yesterday Serrapeptase to my regimen to fight inflammation.  My diet and LLLT and other supplements have addressed this issue already so I may not get much extra benefit. 

Zix, you sound like the wise old donkey Benjamin from Animal Farm!  That or Marvin from Hitchhiker’s guide to the the galaxy.

 

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# 3 ]

April 07, 2012, 11:56 PM

Hi Lapwing.

Zix, you sound like the wise old donkey Benjamin from Animal Farm!  That or Marvin from Hitchhiker’s guide to the the galaxy.

Is that an insult or a compliment? I’m not familiar with either character. LOL!

But I agree the articles and the substance is really attacking inflammation. But what I found interesting is that there was a slight hint that there was a possibility of overcoming the 30 month window. The only thing I know about prostaglandin is that it is the target of many over the counter pain medications. Stuff like Tylenol. However I suspect things aren’t that simple. They never are.

 

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tanner84

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# 4 ]

April 08, 2012, 12:12 AM

So does LLLT fight inflammation? What about the cold showers? And another guy said that colloidal silver does the trick for inflammation.

What’s even more important - how do we know that these measures that we are taking are effective? Like how do you know that the inflammation is subsiding?

I had a doctor take some magnified photos of my scalp and at the base of “some” of the follicles that were either producing a vellus or terminal hair, there was a red dot that she said was inflammation. So maybe some follicles are being ravaged by inflammation and this specific PGD2, and then others are being acted upon by DHT. Just a random theory. Maybe it’s a combination of both factors.

I think I’m going to buy the proscope that the doc used so that I can take before and after photos when I do my apple cider vinegar wash, poly80 treatment, microneedling, cold showers, laser, etc.. Also maybe I will be able to see if some of these anti-inflammatory efforts are working.

 

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holyjalopy

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# 5 ]

April 08, 2012, 10:14 AM

Can someone put this in human terms?:

Where ya been guys?  I don’t even play a doctor on TV and I know this:  Fish oil contains prostaglandin PGD2 reactions—whether the following regime is enough for pharmacological hair effect remains to be seen. Around ten years ago the following was observed—when the PGD2 generation is inhibited by incubation with COX-2 inhibitors lgE and anti lgE challenge—suggesting you can reduce the production of PGD2 with endogenous EPA (Eicosapentaenioc acide) supplementation—in English, suck down those fish oil tablets:  Remember, this advice is worth every penny you spent for itCyclo-oxygenase-2 in cultured human mast cells.Obata T, Nagakura T, Masaki T, Maekawa K, Yamashita K Department of Molecular Cell Biology, Institute of DNA Medicine, Jikei University School of Medicine, Tokyo, Japan.BACKGROUND: Eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) is catalysed by cyclo-oxygenase (COX), as is arachidonic acid, and is a competitive inhibitor of arachidonate metabolism. OBJECTIVES: The above examined the effect of EPA on prostaglandin (PG) D2 generation in the cultured humanmast cells with IgE-anti-IgE challenge incubation by Cultured human mast cells were incubated with EPA (1 micromol/L) for 20 h, then challenged with anti-IgE incubation after treatment with IgE. At the same time, COX inhibitors were tested to identify COX-1 and COX-2 activity. PGD2 synthetic activity was also assayed in a cell-free homogenate of cultured mast cells with COX inhibitors and EPA. Histamine in the culture medium and in cells was assayed with the HPLC-fluorescent method. PGD2 and PGD3 [?] were assayed with gas chromatography-mass spectrometry and the stable isotope dilution method. RESULTS: Although EPA incubation did not affect histamine release [?] by cultured human mast cells in response to IgE-anti-IgE challenge incubation, it did decrease PGD2 generation by inhibiting the COX-2 pathway. In contrast, in the cell-free homogenate of cultured human mast cells, EPA inhibited both COX-1 and COX-2 activities. CONCLUSION: Pre-incubation with EPA primarily affects the COX-2 pathway in cultured human mast cells and reduces PGD2 generation in response to IgE-anti-IgE challenge incubation. These findings suggest that COX-1 and COX-2 have different substrate flow systems in mast cells. They also suggest that endogenous EPA diet supplementation would reduce PGD2 production and could serve as an anti-inflammatory substrate in human mast cells.

 

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# 6 ]

April 08, 2012, 01:23 PM

All I need to know, quoted from the 3rd link.

[“Yet, Umar urged men not to toss out their Rogaine yet. “Yes, this may open another front from which hair loss may be treated. It is not likely to be the panacea, however,” he added.

There are likely multiple prostaglandins involved with inhibiting or promoting hair growth, he pointed out. Steroids and nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs also inhibit PGD2 “but have not been shown to consistently grow hair,” Umar noted.”]

 

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Lapwing

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# 7 ]

April 08, 2012, 07:15 PM

Zix,

It was meant as a compliment.

Tanner,

I thinking you are way over-working this.  Yes LLLT is anti-inflammatory near are wavelength.  (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17920925)

Simple oils like Organic virgin coconut oil treatment (add a little Tea Tree Oil), shampoo out after 15-60 minutes with non-sls shampoo, LLLT 20 minutes or so, and then do caffeine shampoo the next morning, three to two times a week.  Add in a clay scalp peel once a month.  Cut out crap carbs and all sugar from your diet.  Cut out diary, eggs, red meat, and sports supplements.  Eat three squares, get at least 7 hours sleep and exercise at least 5 days a week.  There is my prescription for majorly reducing ones scalp inflammation.  Obviously it is a bitter pill for a lot of people. 

How did I know my routine worked for me.  One: the itch went completely away in a month.  Scalp felt better.  Hair loss stop and in about 9 months I finally got some modest regrowth.

Cold showers probably aren’t bad, but they have been tried for decades with not much success for most people.  What is great about oils and lllt is that they actually can target the hair follicles!  Everything else basically stops at the surface or you have to way overload your internal consumption to get the supplements to your scalp follicles from the inside.

 

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Kazbar

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# 8 ]

April 08, 2012, 08:37 PM

Apparently Resveratrol does the trick as well.
http://www.resveratrolnews.com/attention-all-balding-males-resveratrol-your-rescue/520/

Also my cousin who is 24 has a thick head of hair, both his younger brothers are balding significantly. His father and grandfathers are bald. What makes his case unique is that he is the only asthma sufferer in the family. I wonder if the asthma medication (ie asthma pump) has anything to do with keeping his hair?

How can onion as a topical help? just curious.

 

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Lapwing

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# 9 ]

April 08, 2012, 09:28 PM

Kazbar

Onion has a lot of quercetin in it.  Supposedly, it helps with hair.  I never tried it.  I only meant that as bit of a joke, but who knows.  It seems like every few years somebody tries to sell the “amazing” onion topical cure.  I am just upping my food consumption of it.  It suppose to help with allergies as well.  I think it is probably like cold showers, only mildly beneficial.  Both don’t seem very desirable to me.  I hate cold showers and I don’t want to my head to smell like an onion.

I have been doing the resveratrol and curcumin combo thing for long time now.

 

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# 10 ]

April 09, 2012, 05:31 AM

Hi Lapwing, I guess its been working for you. What brand resveratrol and curcumin do you recommend? Do you use it as a topical?

Thanks, Kazbar

 

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Lapwing

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# 11 ]

April 09, 2012, 11:03 AM

Kazbar,

I believe my curcumin is Jarrows and my Resveratrol is Dr’s Best.  These are pills not topicals.  They are nice to take but I don’t know how much they really help with hair.  That is the problem when you do lots of stuff, you don’t know what is doing what.  I would say they are mildly beneficial.

 

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# 12 ]

April 11, 2012, 05:18 AM

Hello everybody…

Lapwing: nice simplified version on your hair loss protocol. Always nice to hear about users getting some regrowth.

I been doing LLLT for about 13 weeks straight now. 3x a week 20min a session using the pulsed drive. I must say that my hair does seem to have improved since in this short time. The quality and texture of my hair does seem to be stronger, shinier and more manageable. Prior to using the LLLT there were parts of my hair that was getting wavy, limpy and somewhat dead, dull and frizzy like. Much of this has gone from the frontal hairline area which is great.

However I just stopped taking both avodart and rogain after 8 consistent yrs now. Been off the avodart for 1 month now and almost 1 month off the rogain. The frontal is holding OK although it seems that I’m losing some ground on the top and back (vortex) area. I suppose this is to be expected after-all.

Allthough sometimes I wonder if some of this shedding is also from the LLLT and perhaps the rejuveplex applications. I have read some posts were users were experiencing some sheds at about the 3 month mark during lllt and also heard some shedding stories from some users during their rejuveplex usage. Hopefully good things will arise from all this..  smile

I have heard about using a pre-topical prior to LLLT for some time now. I haven’t used much of anything prior to LLLT. Your coconut oil prior to using the LLLT sounds like a good plan (although your washing it out prior to doing the LLLT). Been hearing good stories about coconut oil being good topically for hairloss. The addition of the tea tree oil sounds good too. 

Was curious as to which brand did you feel was a good one to use or have you used for your hair? Most of these coconut oils are somewhat solid, do you warm some up prior to usage or rub it in your hands?

What type of caffeine shampoo are you using? I been doing revita DS labs shampoo for some time now which also contains caffeine and some other helpful ingredients as noted below;

  Apple polyphenol
  Copper peptides
  Spin traps
  Ketoconazole
  Rooibos
  Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM)
  Caffeine
  Carnitine tartrate
  Amino acids
  Emu oil
  Biotin

http://www.divineskin.com/revita/technical.asp

 

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# 13 ]

April 11, 2012, 05:51 PM

Addicted,

My favorite coconut oil to use is: http://www.artisanafoods.com/products/extra-virgin-coconut-oil  I ca.n find it at my whole foods store usually.  I just usually spoon the solid coconut oil into the palm of my hand.  So just rubbing it in the hands works well to melt it quickly.  I then generously apply it to my scalp and lightly massage in.  I usually leave it in for 30 min. (15-60 min).  I then put Tea Tree Oil in my scalp with a dropper and lightly massage in for another 5 or 10 minutes.  I then bath and shampoo out my scalp and hair.  I wait 15-30 minutes and with a dry-ish scalp and damp-ish hair do my lllt session.  As far as I know this is the preferred way to lllt.  First a topical oil, then shampoo out, then lllt.  I stumbled onto it and found out later that is what the clinics and other experienced people do as well.  I usually add another oil in as well with the coconut.  Right now I am adding in Hemp Seed Oil and Avocado Oil as my secondary oils.  Hemp seed is suppose to be good for ceramides and avocado should help with collagen.  Both should be good for making a healthier scalp.  If you noticed your scalp will be real tight, hard, and thin in your thinning areas.  That is that scarring calcification mpb thing going on in your scalp.  Mine has gotten somewhat better now over the last year or so.  Hopefully that will translate into more hair in the future. 

As for caffeine shampoos.  I make my own.  I buy anhydrous caffeine powder online and make a weekly mix.  Something like a teaspoon for every two ounces of shampoo.  Maybe more, I like it a bit grainy.  It will dissolve further once your shampoo mix gets in your wet hair and hands.  I massage in for about 2 minutes and the washout.  I do this usually 5 mornings a week.  I always try to do it after a lllt night.  It seems to be great combo with my lllt routine.  Right now my shampoo that I use for my caffeine mix is a two parts J.A.Y. Aubrey Organic Shampoo and one part John Masters Organics - Lavender Rosemary Shampoo.

 

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# 14 ]

April 12, 2012, 04:08 AM

@Lapwing, what about Emu-oil and the preferred way explained by O.M.G?
Pre-topical: Emu oil, niacin, perhaps some poly80 with some alcohol, leave in during LLLT
LLLT session 20 minutes
Post-topical : Coconut oil, leave in for 30 minutes

Take a shower:)

Your approach is very different to this.

 

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Lapwing

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# 15 ]

April 13, 2012, 01:19 AM

dZine,

I evolved into my routine before OMG perfected his preferred way.  OMG’s way is the gold standard.  However, I question niacin now in light of the PGD2 issue, since Niacin will release undesired PGD2 into the scalp.  At least for now Niacin is totally suspect to me at the moment.  I am opposed to Emu oil since I am basically vegan now.  It is suppose to be great, but Coconut Oil + TTO + another secondary oil works great for me.  From my knowledge the old LLLT clinics did an oil pre-topical then shampoo out, and then LLLT. 

I think either approach is reasonable.  Remember things are not etched in stone.  Keep in mind the main working principles are: a clean damp-ish(or just dried) scalp, about 60 minutes of lllt per week(for our laser helmets), no more than 30 min per session, and space out your sessions so you have decent time in between, e.g., m/w/f for three times a week or m/th if you do only twice a week.  Personally I do it twice a week now at 28 minutes each session.  So I average about 56 minutes a week.

 

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# 16 ]

April 13, 2012, 01:44 AM

Lapwing: Thanks for your update. I had some organic extra virgin raw organic coconut oil here at home as I use this on most all my cooking. For the first time here, as last night was LLLT night, after reading your response here I gave it a try as you had noted prior to doing the helmet. Left it on for about 40 minutes then washed it off and did the LLLT shortly after while hair was still a bit damp. Looks like this made my hair look nice and shinier. Don’t need any conditioner when using this stuff.

Then I read dZine’s update and I believe this was the protocol that I have heard when doing LLLT. Although the alcohol sounds too drying. I do like the oil topical prior to lasering. I had though about maybe leaving this on during laser treatments. Coconut oil is said to have antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, and anti-androgenic properties that straight address mechanisms linked with MPB. So including this to our regimen sounds like a good idea.

I also read that coconut Oil down regulates the making of DHT. Probably wouldn’t be a bad idea to add this topically on a daily basis. I know I have also seen organic coconut oils specifically marketed for the hair at my local whole health food stores. Not sure if they are really any better than the regular organic extra virgin raw organic coconut oil used for cooking.

Was doing some searching online and I found this product which was a combination of several organic oils.

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/organic-coconut-oil-hair-oils.htm

I have also heard good stories about emu oil. I was reading that emu oil is an anti-inflammatory agent that could restore epidermis cells and produce healthy hair. I also read some posts of users talking about some serious sheds during emu oil. This sort of concerns me as I don’t particularly need any more sheds.

Has others here that have and or is using emu-oil experienced the hair sheds….?

 

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Lapwing

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# 17 ]

April 13, 2012, 04:24 PM

Another reason I don’t leave in a pre-topical is that it is going to mess up my helmet and possibly the diodes over time.  All that oil and stuff will get everywhere.  It sounds like a total mess to me.  I guess if you have no hair or buzz it down then it won’t cause a mess, but I have most of my hair and I keep it long so there is no avoiding a mess for me.

Yeah, after I do my oil treatment my hair gets as a reult a deep conditioner treatment as well.  It looks nice and shiny the next day.

 

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# 18 ]

April 13, 2012, 09:53 PM

Addicted,

Been applying Emu nightly (and shampooing it out in the morning) for about a month, and have not experienced a shed.

 

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April 25, 2012, 01:34 AM

Thanks for the updates. My hair is also somewhat long so I can see where this may leave some oil residue on the inside of the helmet. Does anybody else here that uses LLLT do any pre oil treatment and leaves this in during their helmet session? If so have you had any issues with any oil mess left behind?

I recall hearing about the poly80 and niacin combo some time ago. Is this still considered the latest pre or during LLLT protocol?

The fact that I stopped the rogain, it sounds like adding something like niacin would be beneficial. I was reading that niacin is somewhat related to minoxidil as it also maintains potassium channels thus stimulating hair growth.

I came across this product here which consists of Polysorbate 80, Biotin and Niacin.

http://minoxidildirect.com/polysorbate_80.htm

Anybody try this stuff out?


Thanks Rosariorose9; which particular emu oil have you been using?

 

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