LLLT helmet penetration through hair

   
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Skintoofew

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June 25, 2013, 02:50 PM

I recently obtained a Laser helmet and am starting self treatment.
I’m a Norwood stage 4 with decent amount of hair but an obvious 2” thin spot on my crown.

I wonder how much power is penetrating my hair and actually reaching my scalp.
I have a feeling at least half is being absorbed by my hair, except for the thin crown area. 

Has hair penetration been assessed?
Obviously this issue would exist with all LLLT helmets.
Only comb type devices seem to directly expose underlying scalp.

Input?

 

 

 

 

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OverMachoGrande

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# 1 ]

June 25, 2013, 04:23 PM

Hey, Skintoofew!

Way, way back in 2008, I wrote a blog about this on my omg site in which I tried to show this:
QUESTION:  O.M.G., does laser light penetrate through my thick hair, too? -ANSWERED!

Unfortunately, it’s hard to take pictures of lasers to begin with because the light intensity just blows the shot!  The second factor, of course, is actually trying to take a picture UNDER a helmet -it’s all around near impossible to do!

What I was trying to illustrate is that this shouldn’t be a concern at all!  When you actually take a peak at what is going on up there under the helmet (which you can see though the space between the headband and the top part on my helmet, and you could see easily all around with my original golden helmet), you’ll see that the scalp is FULLY IRRADIATED!  It’s amazing—that light gets through and your scalp is “lit up” no matter how dense your hair is.  The bristles on my helmet or a comb do help “part” the hair a bit and pull it out of the way, but it technically probably makes zero difference (and that’s not what the bristles are for on my helmet anyway!).

Even perfectly healthy hair isn’t dense enough to block intense laser light. My wife, the Laser Babe, has some of the thickest hair on the planet. I refer to it as “Bombshell Hair” -and when she uses the helmet, her scalp is fully irradiated (and she even gets soreness, like I do).

So, yes, it would seem like it would be a factor, but even the close spacing of dense, healthy bombshell hair isn’t close enough to make any difference. By the way, I’ve heard mention that light energy can travel down the hair shaft directly into the follicle as well (like a fibre optic cable or something). I have no idea if that is actually true, but I can see it happening!

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

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OverMachoGrande

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# 2 ]

June 25, 2013, 04:50 PM

Ha ha ha!

Yikes, I just re-read that 2008 article of mine, and my post that I just made absolutely contradicted certain things in it!  Basically, I said that a chrome dome would, of course, get more exposure, and that brush bristles *do* help lasers penetrate!  I actually don’t feel both of those are perfectly accurate now.

Bristles could help a bit, but I don’t think it’s anything that would make any real impact when you are talking LONG TERM USAGE.  Same with thick vs. thin hair—I just don’t think any blockage from hair is going to make any measurable impact long term. 

Oh well, it’s easy to see that over the past five years of becoming one of the guys with the most “hands on” LLLT experience out there, I’ve obviously learned some things!

I’ve always wanted to go back and re-write some of those ancient articles.  Maybe I’ll have to do that soon!

-O.M.G.

 


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

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Skintoofew

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# 3 ]

June 26, 2013, 12:45 AM

Great info, thanks!

I was informed by my doctor that my helmet was indicated for light hair but was not so effective for black hair.
I suspect thicker dark hair may require longer exposure times to compensate for hair absorption.

I read on EDS that just the focusing covers on Aixiz diodes reduce the laser power by almost 50%.

What is the maximum limit? (i.e. is 10j/cm causing shedding?)

STF

 

 

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OverMachoGrande

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# 4 ]

June 26, 2013, 08:48 AM

Hey, Skintoofew!

Yeah, lens caps are bad on any laser device for really any type of laser therapy.  They do nothing but take away power, and I can’t think of any LLLT application where you actually would need the beam focused—unless you are talking about things like hair REMOVAL, which isn’t exactly “low level” laser therapy anyway!

It’s all diodes—not just Aixiz.  We’ve had several types independently tested, and yes, it was something like 1.8mW out of 4.7mW total output sucked right off the top.  So, about ~40%.  I’ve always joked that if your laser device has lens caps, it’s a sure-fire sign that the manufacturer doesn’t know anything about laser therapy!  I digress, though.

Ok, though, as far as time/results for hair color, both Dr. Maricle and I have noticed NO real practical difference with hair loss.  I just don’t think it’s a factor.  I know that both skin color and hair color can make a difference with high powered lasers for things like skin remodeling and hair removal, but not with these lower powered hair loss diodes, and not over a really long course of treatment.

If you’d allow me to completely make up some numbers and a scenario here, I’ll illustrate what I mean.  Let’s just say that it was found that purple skin/hair absorbs 20% more laser energy than chartreuse skin/hair.  With HAIR LOSS:  if you are using low 5mW diodes and getting roughly 5 joules cm2, then the purple skinned people would only be getting a joule more energy—still way in the safe range of energy.  If it was reversed, they would still be in the rage of getting results, too.

After, say, an entire YEAR of the treatment, I think you’ve EQUALED OUT any small differences that might exist.  That’s why I say we’ve noticed no practical difference.

However, if you are talking strong 150mW lasers for something like hair removal, 20% either way could all of a sudden make it a lightsaber, or all of a sudden make it useless.

All my numbers are made up there, but I’m just trying to paint the picture of what I’m talking about without having to dig up numbers.  Anyway, I could be wrong (and there certainly isn’t any real data on this for hair loss) but I just don’t think that this is a concern for hair loss sufferers!

As far as the maximum limits, overstimulation won’t cause shedding.  That’s not the way it works.  In the first years of this before we could really get the word out on how long this should be done, there were a hundred people probably doing their devices WAY TOO LONG—some people were doing it for an hour or more!  None of them ever had a shed.  That’s because when you overstimulate the tissue like that, your tissue “shuts down”—so you don’t get any results, but you also don’t trigger a major shed.  The only shedding that occurs from laser therapy is when you are reversing your hair cycles from telegen to anagen, and just about every single other case of a BIG shed that I have ever seen can be traced to minoxidil.

From most of the studies I’ve seen, the maximum limit you should strive for is 6 joules, and at 9-12 joules is where the overstimulation can start to occur.  Wound healing and other things is completely different, though, and I’ve seen the upper end of that waaaaay up there—-like 40 joules and up!

Hope that helps!

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

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OverMachoGrande

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# 5 ]

June 26, 2013, 08:55 AM

Oh, sometimes you do need the lens caps for PROTECTION!  If you shove a diode up your nose for blood irradiation, or if you shove a diode in your ear for tinnitus, then you want to leave the lens caps ON!  That diode will die in minutes without it (especially up your nose)!!!!

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

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