Helmeting frequency

   
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Skintoofew

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June 27, 2013, 11:47 AM

Hi gang,

I’ve ready everywhere including the directions of my lasercap to use it 3 times a week or every other day for 30 minutes. This is similar to what I see recommended for all LLLT helmets.

Is the day off period necessary?
Why not use 1/2 time twice as often?

I understand that the biostimulation is cumulative, but with other LLLT protocols I have researched, 12 hours is quoted as minimum duration before next use.

 

IGNORE

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OverMachoGrande

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# 1 ]

June 27, 2013, 01:03 PM

Hey, Skintoofew!

No, those times are not in line at all with how we use our Laser Messiah helmets.  Might end up with the same total energy if your diodes aren’t as strong, but AiXiZ diodes at the height of a brush bristle give about 5 joules in 20 minutes.  30 minutes would be TOO MUCH with our diodes (at least with a standard power supply), and if you factored in that the laser cap doesn’t elevate the diodes, either, it’d be probably way over the top.  So, it’s not really apples to apples, I suppose, but the straight answer is no, that’s not how most of our devices are to be used!

The Laser Messiah’s PulseDrive -which is amazing, by the way (I always have to say that!)- might actually be ok at a longer time, and I’m actually going to make a post about that later so I won’t go into that now.

The reason you don’t want to split up the time is two fold:  1) There is an “entry point” to the window of energy in which if you don’t get to a certain level, you don’t get the “magic”, and 2) laser results keep improving the higher you get—until you finally hit a certain point, and it’s a quick decline. 

The window of energy where the “magic” happens has been estimated to be (from tons of various laser studies on all sorts of treatments) is roughly 3 joules - 6 joules, with 6 joules being better than 3.  I’ve seen some calculations that show the entry point as low as 2 joules—and you’ll see a certain bogus laser comb company claim that it’s actually 1-4 joules, and when questioned if their device actually hits 1 joule, they will deflect the question (it doesn’t!).

The “day off” aspect is interesting, and you could be correct.  I’ve never found CONCLUSIVE data that says you need a full day in between sessions.  I know that many GOOD laser clinics say you should go three times a week, while some of the, well, lesser ones will try to keep you at only two times a week—and I’ve always had the opinion it’s because they want to sell more time slots, and two is “good enough” to get at least some results.

I do absolutely feel that there is a positive difference between two and three times a week.  The times I’ve done it more than that,  I can frankly say that I didn’t notice anything WORSE—maybe it could have been better.  HOWEVER, I’ve always noticed the similarity between exercise and laser therapy with muscle stimulation, soreness, etc., and we do know that exercising the same muscle group every day probably isn’t a good thing to do.  So, MAYBE there is kind of a loose correlation there.

I don’t really know about that, though—I can tell you that doing a laser helmet MORE than three days a week can actually be hard to schedule, and what’s extremely odd is that on months where I try to do weeks of four or five sessions a week, I always end up doing LESS than if I just stuck with a straight schedule of Mon/Wed/Fri!  That might just be me, though!

I hope that helps!

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

 

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Skintoofew

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# 2 ]

July 03, 2013, 02:55 PM

Thank you for the detailed reply OMG.

It’s possible the alternating day protocol was simply a result of hair clinic time constraints and cost.
Frequency of use is perhaps the second most important factor with LLLT.
If there is no downside to lasering daily, then it may be the best approach.

If anyone can report positive or negative effects from long term daily use please chip in.
I’ll see what I can find from some researchers.

 

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Skintoofew

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# 3 ]

July 08, 2013, 03:23 AM

Found an interesting perspective from Dr. Prochazka.
Not specifically involving hair but perhaps relevant.

http://summit-chiropractic.com/laser/class_iv_laser.asp

Arndt-Schultz Law stipulates that effect of therapeutic laser appears when a certain threshold limit of irradiated energy is exceeded, and is rising till a level called plateau of effect is reached. As soon as the plateau is reached, further increasing of energy dosage has allegedly no influence on desired result of therapy. On the contrary, from a certain level on (literature indicates ca 16 J/cm2) the effect of laser is purportedly decreasing. However, in my opinion this applies only (though not quite unequivocally) to in-vitro experiments with cellular cultures, not taking into consideration (as it is practically impossible) the whole complex of effects of laser on living organism within the frameworks of therapy of a defined syndrome or complaint, comprising systematic effect, analgesic and antalgic effect, antiphlogistic and vasodilatation effect, biostimulation etc.


Another consideration is the troubling fact that j/cm2 is not a static measurement.
http://www.thorlaser.com/LLLT/calculating-LLLT-dosage.htm

Has anyone gone way overboard with LLLT dosage (20j/cm2+, daily use, etc.) and seen negative or no results?

 

 

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Skintoofew

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# 4 ]

August 13, 2013, 01:56 PM

I wanted to come back with some updates.
The only research I could find that indicated inhibition with daily LLLT use was this often quoted study:

In 1984, Dr. Trelles showed in one study that patients with alopecia areata who were
treated with He-Ne laser 632,8 nm showed a good response. Dr. Trelles reported that
most of the patients with alopecia areata responded well after only 6 to 8 treatments
administered twice a week for a couple of weeks. The He-Ne laser was placed 30
centimeters from the alopecia areata with dosages ranging from 3-4 Joule per sq. cm.
No fibres or lenses were used. In the same study, microscopic evaluation of the hair
shaft structure on the alopecia areata irradiated areas showed a clear medulla rich in
keratin after treatment. Daily treatments appeared to prevent regrowth, causing irritation
with probable increase in hair loss.

I could not locate the actual study on pubmed to review the parameters.
I suspect the diodes were more powerful than 5mw (4j/cm2 at 30cm no time parameter).
Also it is of concern that the Dr. reports a positive response after “a couple of weeks”.
It appears the researcher is Dr. Mario Trelles who went on to use lasers for hair removal.

Most all of the studies that indicate hairgrowth with lasercombs indicate daily use.

If the LLLT is supressing scalp DHT, daily use may be superior.

 

 

 

IGNORE

 
   
 








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