Polysorbate 80 / Bromelain Enzyme Pre‑Shower Topical: A “MUST” for hair loss sufferers?

January 03rd, 2011, 5:36 pm

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By John Christian

Background


PRE-SHOWER TOPICALS:  Using certain topical treatments BEFORE a shower have been proven to be extremely beneficial.  This has been previously covered in the WorldHairLoss.org exclusive article “So what’s the deal with all these clays? -Clays for Hair Loss”.

The “official regimen” of this site will consist of non-competing treatments (treatments used at different times and/or don’t interfere with each other), and utilizing the window of opportunity that a wash-out/pre-shower topical gives you will help give the extra advantage you need to help win the battle.

POLYSORBATE 80: The polysorbate 80/ethyl alcohol mix (50%/50%) that we have been using as a pre-shower topical before laser usage is fantastic, and if you do some legwork you can find out for yourself that it really seems to improve laser results hands down.  I’ve always stated that everyone using any sort of laser device should be using it (and people that aren’t using lasers could benefit from this as well).

Polysorbate 80 has been a part of many successful hair treatments for decades, including the erroneously controversial “Helsinki Formula” (all of this will be the subject of an upcoming article).  Some have claimed that it can remove DHT from the follicle receptors, but whether that is actually true or not there are still great GUNK, SEBUM, and OIL removing benefits -and it doesn’t have the “over drying” problem that clay has.

ENZYMES (i.e. BROMELAIN): I’ve always thought that using enzymes to help dissolve fibrosis and repair the top layer of skin is something that all of us should be doing.  Scalp Skin Lady has great products for this at ScalpSkinWorks.com -and I’ll have more articles on these very soon- and I feel that perhaps, in addition to monthly scalp peels, using a milder, less robust enzyme like Bromelain on a more regular basis might have benefit as well.

Simply put, exfoliating enzymes chemically dissolve fibrosis, improves scalp health and hygiene (which is extremely neglected by most hair loss sufferers), counters bacterial and fungal growth, and therefore creates the optimum scenario for treatments -topicals and lasers should work BETTER.

HOWEVER…  a lot of ethyl alcohol can possible damage hair over long term usage (I noticed this when my hair got really long -not when it was kept shorter, though), and I must say that I find additional topicals like a daily bromelain enzyme treatment just too damn hard to squeeze in.  If I have a whole bunch of things I have to do for hair loss, I find I get burnt out on them and don’t stick with them like I should.

So…

PURPOSE #1


The first purpose of this article is to test whether or not Bromelain can be mixed with polysorbate 80 -therefore cutting topicals and making life easier for us while getting the possible benefits of a fairly regularly used enzyme.

PURPOSE #2


The second purpose of this article is to provide an alternative for mixing polysorbate with alcohol (regardless of whether or not Bromelain is used).  Ethyl alcohol is used as a “thinner” (and a penetrant aid) with polysorbate 80, but ethyl alcohol can be irritating, can damage hair, and is hard to find in countries outside of the United States for whatever overregulated, socialist, “nanny state” reasons you can think of.

Polysorbate 80 mixed with bromelain/without alcohol -“PolyBro!”


 


Ok, I must say upfront that I hate the word “bro”.  For the most part, I can say I hate 99% of the people that repeatedly use the word “bro” in conversation, especially in a confrontational sort of way -seriously, those people are just bulls in my china shop or something.  If that’s you, then you sound like a douchebag and you need to know this.  I like living is a “Bro Free Zone”, so it does pain me a bit to use the term “PolyBro”!

Moving on…

The idea is simple.  You put polysorbate 80 in a jar, you add bromelain powder to it, and you heat it in the microwave every time you use it.  Then, you use an eyedropper to apply it to the head, and massage it in.

1) Get a small jar.  I bought a bunch of 4oz. and 6oz. jars (among a lot of other things) from SpecialyBottle.com (http://www.specialtybottle.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=19) a long time ago, and it’s so nice to never have to worry about containers.  So if you ever dabble in this sort of thing just suck it up and buy some case quantities of containers and you won’t be sorry.

The reason you use a jar is because you want a LARGE SURFACE AREA when you heat it.  I don’t think it’d heat up very well in the typical boston round glass bottles.

2) Add the bromelain powder.  I bought mine from Vitamin Shoppe, and there are some other threads on where to get other sources.  I don’t think any are “magic” and better than others, so I don’t think it really matters what type you get.

I didn’t take a picture of it, but I literally just DUMPED IN a bunch of it -it was extremely nonscientific.  IT WON’T MIX, and mine actually started “caking up” a bit.  However, once I screwed on the top, shook it up, heated it, and shook it up again, it was fine.

I didn’t worry about the amount because I knew that the unmixed bromelain would just make it a little grittier, and I don’t think it would do anything else.  So, like I said, I just dumped a whole bunch in.

I’m assuming as it settles, it will once again separate, and it may even cake up again.  I’ll have to get back to you if anything changes -like it refuses to mix again after sitting there for 48 hours.

3) Microwave it!

 


OverMachoGrande’s very old, quite possibly dangerous, extremely dirty microwave counting down from 20 seconds.


You don’t have to nuke it for long.  Just 15 or 20 seconds will probably do it, maybe less.

For all of you hippies that hate microwaves and think that this may somehow “deactivate” everything beneficial, then feel free to use your bunsen burners or Coleman butane powered camping stoves or whatever.  I’m sticking with my dirty microwave.

4) You’re done…

 


As you see, the end result is a pretty “liquidy”, easier to apply topical.  It’s definitely sticky, but it will go on.  Allegedly, the more you massage it in, the better -and the heat actually makes this easier because it feels GOOD to massage it in.

So, just use a dropper and put it on all of the areas.

I used to leave in the original polysorbate 80/ethyl alcohol for HOURS -which might have damaged my hair a little because of the ethyl alcohol.  I left this in for probably an hour or so (I didn’t really check), and I eventually had to shower it out because I could FEEL the bromelain.

Heat concerns of Bromelain as an enzyme


As shown on the bromelain wikipedia page, bromelain becomes active at temperatures from 40 to 60 degrees Celsius (104-140 degrees Fahrenheit), but is best from 50-60 degrees Celsius (122-140 degrees Fahrenheit).  When put on the head, it would raise above room temperature close to the body’s 98.6 degrees, but still not really into the “active window”.

Therefore, heating the PolyBro would be potentially much more beneficial!  Not only would it thin the polysorbate 80, but it would put the bromelain into the “active window”.  For those of you that don’t know, 104 degrees Fahrenheit is the ideal temperature of a hot tub jacuzzi, so this is not intolerable by any stretch of the imagination.

At this point, I have not tested what the temperature is after I heat it in the microwave for 20 seconds, but it should be within that 40 to 60 degrees Celsius range because it isn’t uncomfortable.

I have no idea if…


1) Prolonged use of Bromelain could damage hair, or prove too much for my tender, supple scalp to bear.

2) The ethyl alcohol was responsible for a lot of the improved LLLT results (although I doubt it), and removing it will mean less stimulation.

3) Whether or not having to go to the kitchen and microwave the topical for 20 seconds is going to make me less prone to use it -I’m serious… we all know this type of stuff can be a pain in the ass after a while!

4) The bromelain will eventually go inactive sitting in the polysorbate 80 after a while.  No clue.

I *DO* KNOW that…


1) The bromelain WORKED.  I absolutely did get that “enzyme burn” feeling, which is a true sign that it was working.

2) The laser helmet seemed to still have that increased stimulation feeling from this, so that’s definitely a plus.


I’m going to be directing people to this thread in emails that ask me about substituting alcohol in the poly 80/ethyl alcohol mix, so I wanted to be sure to mention again that YOU DON’T HAVE TO PUT THE BROMELAIN IN THE FORMULA.  I tested it, and you can simply heat up polysorbate 80 in a jar, and this will thin it to the point that you can use an eyedropper to apply it to the head!

In conclusion, we know that both of these ingredients are beneficial to fighting hair loss -that’s based on real user experiences, and not just “studies” published somewhere in which the results never materialize in real life.  In theory, perhaps both of these will have a great synergistic effect and will be great together.

I’ll keep everyone updated, and I’ve still got the “bromelain burn” going, which is a good thing…

-John Christian (O.M.G.)

This article was written by John Christian, a.k.a. “OverMachoGrande”.  John Christian is an editor of WorldHairLoss.org, a pioneer of Do-it-yourself Laser Therapy, the creator of the “Laser Messiah” laser helmet, and a long time consumer advocate for hair loss.


COMMENTS (13)


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SolitaireCloneInX

SolitaireCloneInX

Member

January 03rd, 2011, 10:43 PM

“I tested it, and you can simply heat up polysorbate 80 in a jar, and this will thin it to the point that you can use an eyedropper to apply it to the head!”

So does this mean you used the Polysorbate 80 alone without Bromelain or Ethyl Alcohol? If the only reason to use the Ethyl Alcohol is to thin the Polysorbate, would this approach (heating up the Polysorbate) be more suitable than using a Polysorbate/Ethyl Alcohol mix?


Some days you just can’t get rid of a bomb!

OverMachoGrande

OverMachoGrande

Editor

January 04th, 2011, 02:03 AM

Yeah, I tried it without anything as well as with the bromelain enzyme. 

I do still like the original way with ethyl alcohol because I feel that it does aid the penetration and I’ve always felt “jacked up” stimulation -so it did more than just thin it- but I’ve been feeling that with that much alcohol (50% of the solution) it might damage the hair and just might not be great for the scalp if you wear it for an extended time period.  I’m not sure if it’s really necessary or not.

It’s too soon to tell whether it’s going to give me the same stimulation, but I’ll probably have an idea before too long, and the heating trick might allow me to add something like 10% alcohol if I really wanted to hone the formula -an amount that probably wouldn’t cause much problems!

But, I can say at least right now that if you can’t find any ethyl alcohol or just don’t want to use it, it’s worth it to heat it because it still would give better results than not using it at all.  So, I can’t really say if it’s more suitable yet -but I intend to use it without alcohol for a long time so I’ll probably figure that out soon enough.

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

ninja4hire

Member

January 06th, 2011, 06:40 AM

So lets get something straight…The Polybro combo is used before showering, then washed off, or before and during laser sessions?  I currently do poly/ethyl before shower, wash it out, then apply ethyl bro while lasering.


My Regimen:
400 Diode OMG helmet 20 min x 3 per week, super zix II w caffeine and emu oil 2x day, Regenepure Dr shampoo, pre laser topical (poly 80/acv/olive oil), Scalp exfoliation w/ face scrub.
Internals: n.o. shotgun (for workouts) fish oil omega 3s, DIM

Nidhogge

Nidhogge

Editor

January 06th, 2011, 12:47 PM

Good ole polysorbate 80…was even one of the ingredients listed on my sandwich pickle jar. wink

This looks like a great way to avoid alcohol, which is notorious for drying out the scalp and hair.  Personally, I think that folks should be wary of doing this TOO much, as in, perhaps once a week for a while.  Then, experiment with twice a week…and so forth.  Scalp may need some time to heal, and everyone will vary I’m sure.  But, this is a fantastic idea and I plan on doing it myself. 

Good work, OMG!

FunkyStumpfighter

FunkyStumpfighter

Member

January 06th, 2011, 12:51 PM

I use bromelain internally and externally a lot, now that I can get it so cheap. I can’t tell the difference between the cheap one and the Life Extension one I was using before.

http://www.holisherb.com/servlet/the-386/Bromelain-Organic-Herb-Powder/Detail

OverMachoGrande

OverMachoGrande

Editor

January 06th, 2011, 05:13 PM

Let me take the opportunity to point out that I think this treatment would be beneficial to EVERYONE -laser users or not!  Sorry… I was talking on the phone to Zix Creator today and he said he hadn’t looked at this article because he thought it was only a “laser thing”.  I actually was introduced to polysorbate 80/ethyl alcohol by rosariorose9 way back in 2006 or early 2007 or something -well before the laser stuff.

Rosario actually went to a hair loss clinic years back, and they would do close up inspection of hair follicles.  After he started using polysorbate 80 regularly, the sebum, gunk, and oil build up in the follicles was MUCH LESS.  So, it’s not hard to see that this would have a benefit for everyone for hair and scalp health.

I know there isn’t an article strictly on the benefits of polysorbate 80 yet, but I was going to do an article on both polysorbate 80 and the “Helsinki Formula”, and that would cover it.  The “Helsinki Formula” (whose primary ingredient was polysorbate 60 and 80) was unjustifiably persecuted and painted to be a scam in the late 80’s, early 90’s, and the judge in the case ruled against them saying something absolutely asinine like “I’m judging against this company because it’s the general consensus of scientists that nothing grows hair”.  Meanwhile, a couple of short years later and you have FDA approvals for Propecia and minoxidil. 

So, you can look at it as either “erroneous legislating from the bench from a bad judge” or “government covering for government interests” (the FDA made millions from the approval process of those two other drugs) and you’d probably be right on both counts.  Polysorbate 80 –readily available and inexpensive, but PROVEN effective- was made a laughing stock.  Then, the internet came out, and every single forum was dominated by minox and propecia, and if you talked about alternatives, you were a witch and burned at the stake!

Lol… I’m just explaining why something as simple and easy as polysorbate 80 –that EVERYONE has room for in their regimens as a pre-shower topical (even though Helsinki was “leave in”)- still isn’t well known as an effective treatment when it should be.

Ninja4hire…

Yeah, the polybro would be washed out in the shower before laser usage.  Polysorbate 80 is just way too gunky to leave on the head during laser treatments. 

I’ve got a question for you… do you find the Bromelain to still be “active” and does it still give you that “burn” after you’ve mixed it and it’s been idle for a few days?  I didn’t get the same punch as I got the second time I tried it, and I’m wondering if there is something about the polybro that makes it so you’ll have to mix a small, NEW quantity every time you use it.  Basically… I’m asking if you’ve found it to be “expiring” more and more the older it gets or something.

It might have been a fluke, though.  I’ll have a better idea after tomorrow.  If I need to make a small batch every day, that actually wouldn’t be a problem using one of those little apothecary cups.

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

ninja4hire

Member

January 08th, 2011, 04:54 AM

I have never felt anything when using the bromelian.  I always just hoped it worked.  I followed your formula and mixed it with the alcohol for a laser topical but never felt any tingling. Maybe it would be safer to just add some to the poly and microwave it each time you apply it.

BTW…I have been on this 100 burpee challenge.  You do one burpee on day one, two on day two, and so on till 100.  You should try it.  I think that alone will shed your 40 lbs.


My Regimen:
400 Diode OMG helmet 20 min x 3 per week, super zix II w caffeine and emu oil 2x day, Regenepure Dr shampoo, pre laser topical (poly 80/acv/olive oil), Scalp exfoliation w/ face scrub.
Internals: n.o. shotgun (for workouts) fish oil omega 3s, DIM

ninja4hire

Member

January 08th, 2011, 05:08 AM

To answer your question about heat’s effects on bromelain, it looks like excess heat destroys the enzymes.  This is an excerpt from a research paper I found online about bromelain effects:

The protease activity was destroyed by heating the bromelain BP solution at 80° C. for 1 h.

So it looks like at some point bromelain is activated by heat, but too much heat also destroys the enzyme activity. 

In conclusion, I think you are right that you have to heat each batch of Polybro separately to avoid damaging the enzymes.


My Regimen:
400 Diode OMG helmet 20 min x 3 per week, super zix II w caffeine and emu oil 2x day, Regenepure Dr shampoo, pre laser topical (poly 80/acv/olive oil), Scalp exfoliation w/ face scrub.
Internals: n.o. shotgun (for workouts) fish oil omega 3s, DIM

J87

Member

January 10th, 2011, 05:24 PM

What I’ve been doing with my small bottle of bromelain mix is running it under hot water in the sink for a few minutes before applying. Not sure if this is better than microwaving or not, but it sure makes my scalp tingle/itch for a couple of minutes.

pierre

Member

January 18th, 2011, 09:15 AM

Hi John nice article and nice research by the way, always trying to find the better smile

But there are some words’s combination that I did not understood :

1) The bromelain WORKED.  I absolutely did get that “enzyme burn” feeling, which is a true sign that it was working.

What do you mean by “enzyme burn” ?? -> meaning you felt that the enzyme was attacking fibrosis ?

2) The laser helmet seemed to still have that increased stimulation feeling from this, so that’s definitely a plus.

How can you feel that kind of sensation of stimulation ? -> meaning you felt some blood pressure over the scalp or something like that ?

Mastery

Mastery

Member

February 19th, 2011, 04:19 PM

I have just bought a significant amount of Polysorbate 20 and am off to get the Bromelain powder. I think avoiding the alcohol is a safe bet for anone who is chemcially sensitive or plain, just more sensitive.

Scalp skin lady is a great resource for taking this idea to the next level…

M

OverMachoGrande

OverMachoGrande

Editor

April 01st, 2011, 11:58 AM

UPDATE…

FYI… I’ve been mixing polysorbate 80 with extra virgin olive oil (50%/50% -and later I added a splash of AVC) with some pretty good success, and here is a thread about it:

http://www.worldhairloss.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/564

-O.M.G.


Build your own Laser Helmet | Laser Brush | Laser Device at OverMachoGrande.com!  The internet’s first, best, and biggest consumer advocate site on laser therapy for hair loss!  It’s time to educate yourself about one of the greatest treatments in FORUM HISTORY…

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